Latest from the Gaza Strip - Family Killed in Raid - Page 2

GothicChristian · 05-03-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicChristian

My dearest darling children,
Those of you who believe that Israel was formed because of "holocaust guilt" has never read the proper books or Book shall I say.2000 plus years ago it was predicted that the Jews would have their own country again and as for war with the Arabs that has been going on since Sarah since Abraham into the handmaidens tent to father a child because they didn't have the patience to or the faith to believe.So both sons were granted a race and there will never be peace between the two and that's how it shall be till the end of time,except of course for about three and a half years of what's suppose to be a peace treaty.When that happens we can all pretty much say see ya later to this world as we know it.Oh and while we are on the subject Persia is suppose to rise again and I'll be danged if I don't see her head arising out of the dust.
Believe this my friends the radicals of thew middle east want us dead just as bad as Isreal.Take their words for it.9/11 was just a warning.

That's my mom, but I can't help but agree.
I'm going to just go and register her now, so she doesn't have to log on as me.

CptSternn · 05-05-2008, 03:07 AM

Thats the most skewed, racist, bigoted thing I have read all day. It shows you, or whoever wrote it, have never read any real material on the topic and have adopted the right-wing hate speech that is spewed by people like the current bush administration.

To say that a whole part of the world is radical, and that they are out to kill you, and in the same breath say you have never read any books on the matter just seems a bit daft.

Then, to pin your assumptions on a few lines from the Bible, that makes it even worse. I mean, there is nothing I take issue with more than the right-wing in America who do what they want, then try and use the Bible to justify whatever action it is they wanted to do. Like bush, telling people 'god' told him to invade Iraq.

If you want to sit here and bad-mouth a group of people because your ignorant, its an open forum, feel free. However, don't drag God into it when you can't justify your beliefs with facts. Also, don't expect everyone to sit here while you spew such tripe.

To hear anyone say this sort of stuff reminds me of seeing old 50's-60's memorabilia which are very racist towards African-Americans. To see some of the billboards, magazine ads, movies, old telly shows, and the other stuff that came out of that period really makes you think those people were very ill informed about many things.

When I see someone flaming the Middle East these days and using the Bible to back up their reasons for their HATE, it reminds me of the same Americans who did the same for so many years to other minorities in America.

Apathy's_Child · 05-05-2008, 07:23 AM

Dear GothicChristian's mom,

first of all, someone who refers to the Bible as an oracle, rather than a ready-made justification for what was done to Palestine, really shouldn't be patronizing ANYONE.

Secondly, you're an idiot.

I think Sternn got the rest covered.

PhenomenalTranquility · 05-05-2008, 07:50 AM

HEY! Israelli here!

Well, what can I say, a lot of people in this thread are asswipes that clearly don't know anything about Israel and it's goverment!

Pie!!

PhenomenalTranquility · 05-05-2008, 07:51 AM

HEY! Israelli here!

Well, what can I say, a lot of people in this thread are asswipes that clearly don't know anything about Israel and it's goverment!

Pie!!

AngelikDemon, I have a lot to say to you, but I love monkeys damnit!

Apathy's_Child · 05-05-2008, 07:52 AM

Care to elaborate?

PhenomenalTranquility · 05-05-2008, 07:55 AM

Sorry for the double post. I didn't mean it.

There is so much said in this thread, and I don't feel like making a reply to each different subject. Hmm, well, I'll give you one fact: our current prime minister is a rapist and an asshole, our general suckass, but we have some of the most decent politicans ever to grace this world, very rabin-like. (I know it's very general.. but.. you know..)

Mir · 05-05-2008, 02:14 PM

Israeli's and the Palestinians need to get their shit sorted and their priorities straight. Do you really want another 2000 years of unrest because that is where this is headed. YOU, yes YOU can make a difference because you're an Israeli.

Is it still true that Israel refuses to vacate land because of the religious significance of it? They are just buildings. Someone has to beat some sense into both Israeli's and Palestinians.

This will obviously never happen because too many people make money from the uncertainty and unrest that clouds this region.

KontanKarite · 05-05-2008, 02:52 PM

I don't think Israel as the country and Israel in the spiritual sense are the same thing so the whole religious justification is quite possibly the most insane bunch of shite anyone could come up with.

This is simply a land dispute. A pointless and silly land dispute. Principalities are a dangerous thing, you know.

Mir · 05-05-2008, 03:23 PM

It is a land dispute but the land in question contains buildings that are held in very high regard by both the Jews and the Muslims. Both refuse to give up this land.

Who has a more valid claim to this land? Who the fuck cares. If I was a Palestinian/Jew, I'd be happy to give up this land but not everyone sees it that way. When you are brought up with the prejudice/propaganda that kids on both sides are force fed whilst growing up, I am not surprised that we are as far from a resolution as ever.

If anyone thinks that religion isn't one of the key factors (besides economic factors and water), they are fucking deluded.

KontanKarite · 05-05-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mir

It is a land dispute but the land in question contains buildings that are held in very high regard by both the Jews and the Muslims. Both refuse to give up this land.

Who has a more valid claim to this land? Who the fuck cares. If I was a Palestinian/Jew, I'd be happy to give up this land but not everyone sees it that way. When you are brought up with the prejudice/propaganda that kids on both sides are force fed whilst growing up, I am not surprised that we are as far from a resolution as ever.

If anyone thinks that religion isn't one of the key factors (besides economic factors and water), they are fucking deluded.

But that doesn't make sense, now does it. Do they really think that their god is going to preserve these places during say... WW3?

Mir · 05-05-2008, 04:34 PM

Of course they do. They believe in a lot of shit that you couldn't even begin to imagine.

For instance, many hard liners believe that once the holy land has been cleared of everyone (but the Jews), the day of reckoning will come. You tell me if that makes sense to you.

AngelikDemonik · 05-05-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhenomenalTranquility

HEY! Israelli here!

Well, what can I say, a lot of people in this thread are asswipes that clearly don't know anything about Israel and it's goverment!

Pie!!

AngelikDemon, I have a lot to say to you, but I love monkeys damnit!

Then say it. My problem is not against you, it's against the government of your country/the government of my country for providing support to Israel.

For the record, I have family living in both Palestine and Lebanon.

AngelikDemonik · 05-05-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mir

Israeli's and the Palestinians need to get their shit sorted and their priorities straight. Do you really want another 2000 years of unrest because that is where this is headed. YOU, yes YOU can make a difference because you're an Israeli.

Is it still true that Israel refuses to vacate land because of the religious significance of it? They are just buildings. Someone has to beat some sense into both Israeli's and Palestinians.

This will obviously never happen because too many people make money from the uncertainty and unrest that clouds this region.

The hatred is so deep-rooted on both sides that even if they ever end up sharing their land, there wouldn't be any civil peace.

Mir · 05-05-2008, 04:48 PM

Two thousand years of mind conditioning will do that. The land cannot be shared. It has to be given up by one party or the other and neither will do so. Ever. Things do not look very good for the middle east right now.

I'm sorry to hear that you still have family that lives in such a volatile region.

KontanKarite · 05-05-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

The hatred is so deep-rooted on both sides that even if they ever end up sharing their land, there wouldn't be any civil peace.

I highly doubt it's too far gone, but if it isn't, then I would say the world should cut off support to both sides and let them have their all out war.

Once both sides were done for, the rest of the world would come in, bulldoze the place, and build a Disney Land.

Sorry to sound insincere, but if the hate is that bad, I see no reason for any outside source to pick a side.

Mir · 05-05-2008, 04:51 PM

But it already does. USA backs Israel with weapons and funding while the Arab countries in the region do the same for Palestine.

The hate is so very deep rooted, it is unbelievable. You have to know someone from there or have family in the region to fully understand the extent of it.

Apathy's_Child · 05-05-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I highly doubt it's too far gone, but if it isn't, then I would say the world should cut off support to both sides and let them have their all out war.

Once both sides were done for, the rest of the world would come in, bulldoze the place, and build a Disney Land.

Sorry to sound insincere, but if the hate is that bad, I see no reason for any outside source to pick a side.

There is a difference. One side is ethnically cleansing the other. Palestine has a stronger claim as far a I'm concerned - not only were the Plaestinains there first (to resort to first-grade psychology), but the Israelis kill FAR more civilians in open combat than the Palestinians do. The Gaza Strip is 40 km long, 10 km wide, and occupied by 1.4 million Palestinians. That's fucked up enough to make it a major human rights violations, even if supplies weren't cut off on a pretty regualr basis.

You know what? If I was living in a shitty situation, then the Israelis capped it all by killing my kids, then strap me up! To put it in language the Bible bashers will unmderstand, you reap what you sow.

As with AD, my beef is not with the Israelis as human beings, but with the state's government - its aims, its methods, and most of all (as with most governments) its victims.

KontanKarite · 05-05-2008, 05:37 PM

Do you think the Palestinians would do anything differently if the shoe was on the other foot?

People rarely want justice and peace, they want revenge. Especially if the hate is this strong on both sides.

I'm simply saying that just because one is getting the tee total shit kicked out of them doesn't make them innocent of anything they would have done anyway.

In short, it's not the world's fight. It's theirs. So I still stand on the idea that the world would probably do better to withdraw support regardless.

If the USA hadn't helped Israel so much in the first place, they wouldn't be able to really "ethnically cleanse" another country without a fair fight. Well, fights are rarely ever fair.

It's a shame though.

Apathy's_Child · 05-06-2008, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Do you think the Palestinians would do anything differently if the shoe was on the other foot?

People rarely want justice and peace, they want revenge. Especially if the hate is this strong on both sides.

Actually, the Palestinians DID show evidence of willingness to do things differently. After the Holocaust, some of the survivors went from Europe to Palestine in ships bearing signs that said, "we survived the Holocaust - God's wrath upon you if you fire at us." And so they didn't. Are we, in the First World, that civilized about illegal immigration into OUR country?

Besdies which, that's a weak argument. ALL humanity is capable of behaving like the Israelis, and many nations do so every day. You can't just say, "but they'd do the same to us if the shoe was on the other foot", and expect that to suffice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I'm simply saying that just because one is getting the tee total shit kicked out of them doesn't make them innocent of anything they would have done anyway.

No, it doesn't. It makes them victims of injustice, though, if they're getting the living shit kicked out of them for a bullshit reason. Like, say, "the Bible says this land is destined to belong to us. Get moving. We'll be right behind you with weapons, though, in case you look at us wrong. We'll also occasionally storm your civilian territories, just to make sure."

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhenomenalTranquility

There is so much said in this thread, and I don't feel like making a reply to each different subject. Hmm, well, I'll give you one fact: our current prime minister is a rapist and an asshole, our general suckass, but we have some of the most decent politicans ever to grace this world, very rabin-like. (I know it's very general.. but.. you know..)

Fun for you. If only this was reflected in government policy.

Also, where's the fact you promised? I just heard opinion there.

PhenomenalTranquility · 05-06-2008, 06:41 AM

What fact? I never promised anything.

Everything in this page comes to the same agreement between us all.. Israel's goverment active leaders and the army general's are crooked.

GothicChristian · 05-06-2008, 07:16 AM

If you believe everything you supposedly see in a documentary , I'll sale you my beach front property in Arizona.
In my experience so many documentaries are so full of loop holes and crap you need a lawyer and a roll of toilet paper to get through them.Yes all of them.
They only show one part of a whole and it's the part they want you to see and believe.Hello what good would it be to see the whole story and have someone form a truly informed opinion?
Especially when it comes to the Middle East . I have friends from Lebanon, Syria, Israel and from Palastine and they all are of the same opinion on who is causing most of the trouble over there. And it ain't the Israelis.
That's a whole different discussion.
There is no such thing as objective reporting on anything any more. They only show people what tends to support the film makers and news reporters point of view. That's the sad truth of it.
As for Americans and British citizens dying in Israel,well , they are dying all over the world in ways far worse then is being shown. Where's the documentaries on those who are being murdered in Mexico, South America, Egypt and so forth for political reasons and drugs?

insolitus_noir · 05-06-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicChristian

As for Americans and British citizens dying in Israel,well , they are dying all over the world in ways far worse then is being shown. Where's the documentaries on those who are being murdered in Mexico, South America, Egypt and so forth for political reasons and drugs?

American and British citizens dying elsewhere in the world doesn't lessen the tragedy of their deaths in Israel. In a similar logical vein, it is possible to address one injustice without denying or trivializing other injustices in the world.

PhenomenalTranquility · 05-06-2008, 11:15 AM

Yeah. There is a focused subject here. It was irrelevant of you to put in those last lines. It's like.. two highschool students studying for a math test, and suddenly one of them says, "What are we doing..? The... THE UNIVERSE IS INFINITE!! were studying for a stupid math test in a universe that is... infinite... what does it matter... the universe is infinite..."

Apathy's_Child · 05-06-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicChristian

If you believe everything you supposedly see in a documentary , I'll sale you my beach front property in Arizona.
In my experience so many documentaries are so full of loop holes and crap you need a lawyer and a roll of toilet paper to get through them.Yes all of them.

On the plus side, they're more recent and relevant than the Bible (the "source" which forms the basis of YOUR view). Plus, you actually get to see at least some of the stuff described clearly enough to confirm that it actually happened.

I'm sorry, but hearing this argument with someone who agreed that Biblical justification for the actions of the Israelis should be taken into account, is too sad to even laugh at. If you don't want to swallow everything the media swallows you whole, great, but at least look at the FACTS. Check out the death tolls, look at the methods used. If you don't buy what you're hearing on Fox, do some internet research or read a book. But trashing documentaries while taking the Bible as your source is utterly ridiculous.