Combining Genres

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

I'm thinking about combining one of my favorite genres of all time, Hardcore Punk (particularly the Exploited and the Casualties) with other genres I love to listen to like American Death Metal (Lamb of God, and one or two incredibly heavy Slipknot songs, stuff like that) The lyrics will be almost strictly H.C. Punk, the instruments will vary. Ideas? Criticisms?

[IsolatedReptile]

Sounds interesting, but wouldn't you come up with something similar to metal-core?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by IsolatedReptile

Sounds interesting, but wouldn't you come up with something similar to metal-core?

This is true.

[Corpsey]

Try The Exploited + Alien Sex Fiend. That would be a possibly interesting mix whereas Punk + Metal usually just becomes punk with better distortion or a barely audible bass.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Have you heard any Grindcore? It's basically hardcore punk with death metal vocals. The punk's more along the lines of Discharge than The Exploited, but I think you'd like it just the same. Essential listening includes early Bolt Thrower, Napalm Death and early Carcass.

I need to ween you off Slipknot...

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Corpsey

whereas Punk + Metal usually just becomes punk with better distortion or a barely audible bass.

Listen to Bolt Thrower's early stuff and you'll change your mind.

[Bat Brains]

Could be good. I say go for it! Don't know about Slipknot influences though : P
Have you heard the band Arkhon Infaustus before? They arn't really punk influenced but they're one of my favourite death metal bands.

[James Most Bizzare]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Have you heard any Grindcore? It's basically hardcore punk with death metal vocals. The punk's more along the lines of Discharge than The Exploited, but I think you'd like it just the same. Essential listening includes early Bolt Thrower, Napalm Death and early Carcass.

I need to ween you off Slipknot...

Grindcore is the shit. Napalm Death + Extreme Noise Terror= : ) Slipknot is Nu-Metal, not death metal, and Lamb of God is technically considered Groove Metal. Also there is a big difference between Hardcore (ala Hatebreed, Sick of it All, Biohazard, etc) and Hardcore Punk (Minor Threat, Black Flag, Bad Brains, etc). So a death metal/ hardcore punk combo wouldn't really sound like metalcore (which is a melodic death metal/ hardcore combo).

[KontanKarite]

Am I the only one that thinks this would essentially be crust-punk?

[Bat Brains]

Depends how it's done

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

A few things.

I hate grindcore, I really do. I personally think it sounds like a group of people smashing instruments into a brick wall.

As far as I'm aware, Lamb of God is American Death Metal, I don't even remotely see how groove metal would apply.

There is a huge difference between hardcore and hardcore punk. Hardcore is metalcore with simple drums, and is usually written with lyrics of hatred, anger against people not politics, racism, and bullshit like that. Hardcore punk is constantly social or political outrage and anger at the people ruining lives and controlling everything.

My refference to Slipknot, while yes they are a Nu-Metal band, is to their newest song All Hope is Gone. The CD is not out but you can listen to the song on their myspace, it is clearly American Death Metal.

P.O.S. do not try to ween me off Slipknot, it will not work. Their drummers sound great in my opinion, they have some very catchy guitar riffs, their lyrics are usually quite amazing (Fifty seconds, one hundred murders, a bill of rights is a bill of sale, what will you do when the war is over? what will you do when your systems fail?) and I like their vocals. There's no good reason to ween me off a band I like.

Napalm death absolutely blows. The vocals sound like pigs being sodomized by a whale, with a tweaker having a seizure on drums and a bunch of guitarists slamming their guitars into the wall. They suck.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Lamb of God is definitely not death metal. I do like them, but I don't know what they're labeled as. I just know it's not death metal.

[James Most Bizzare]

The wikipedia article for Lamb of God lists them as groove metal/metalcore, and I definetly think either of those designations apply far better than death metal (i am a MAJOR death metal fan, death and black metal are almost exclusively the only kinds of metal I listen to, so know who your talking to). Campbell, on the "Walk With Me In Hell" DVD, says that Lamb of God is "a punk band that plays heavy metal." While on the same DVD Chris Adler refers to them as a speed metal band.
Death metal music is usually much faster than the average Lamb of God song, often utilizing blast beats, which I've never heard in a lamb of God song. (If you don't know what a blast beat is, look up The Funerary March by Hate Eternal, it starts off on one). Death metal vocals are typically much deeper and more guttural than Randy's. The guitar playing in death metal relies more on dissonant tremolo-picking and fast palm-muted runs then on chugging power chords, thus giving the music a shifting and atonal sound. Lamb of God's guitar style is more riff based with much chugging like Pantera or other thrash and groove bands. For the record, some landmark death metal bands include Suffocation, Cannibal Corpse, Deicide, Immolation, Obituary, Malevolent Creation, Incantation, Vital Remains, Nile, and Dying Fetus. Listen to these bands, and you'll see that most of them have little in common with Lamb of God's breed of metal.

Oh and the Slipknot song lacks a crucial death metal element, which is brutal guttural vocals. It sounds more like a Nu-Metal band's poor attempt at making death metal then a good example of the genre.

[LetheanBlacklight]

Ugh sub-sub-sub-sub categories of subgenres are ANNOYING AS HELL
It's like spliting hairs dammit.

Joker, just take pieces of what you wish from your influences., and build and pioneer to different sounds

[JCC]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Have you heard any Grindcore? It's basically hardcore punk with death metal vocals. The punk's more along the lines of Discharge than The Exploited, but I think you'd like it just the same. Essential listening includes early Bolt Thrower, Napalm Death and early Carcass.

I need to ween you off Slipknot...

Grindcore is amazing, not sure from the Slipknot comment whether this was directed at me or Joker, but yeah.

[IsolatedReptile]

I've always enjoyed Slipknot. Whether someone likes them or not, it is evident that most of the musicians in that band have immense amounts of talent.

LetheanBlacklight also has a good point. Play what you want, experiment with what you want, and list your influences however you want.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by James Most Bizzare

The wikipedia article for Lamb of God lists them as groove metal/metalcore, and I definetly think either of those designations apply far better than death metal (i am a MAJOR death metal fan, death and black metal are almost exclusively the only kinds of metal I listen to, so know who your talking to). Campbell, on the "Walk With Me In Hell" DVD, says that Lamb of God is "a punk band that plays heavy metal." While on the same DVD Chris Adler refers to them as a speed metal band.
Death metal music is usually much faster than the average Lamb of God song, often utilizing blast beats, which I've never heard in a lamb of God song. (If you don't know what a blast beat is, look up The Funerary March by Hate Eternal, it starts off on one). Death metal vocals are typically much deeper and more guttural than Randy's. The guitar playing in death metal relies more on dissonant tremolo-picking and fast palm-muted runs then on chugging power chords, thus giving the music a shifting and atonal sound. Lamb of God's guitar style is more riff based with much chugging like Pantera or other thrash and groove bands. For the record, some landmark death metal bands include Suffocation, Cannibal Corpse, Deicide, Immolation, Obituary, Malevolent Creation, Incantation, Vital Remains, Nile, and Dying Fetus. Listen to these bands, and you'll see that most of them have little in common with Lamb of God's breed of metal.

Oh and the Slipknot song lacks a crucial death metal element, which is brutal guttural vocals. It sounds more like a Nu-Metal band's poor attempt at making death metal then a good example of the genre.

You do know American Death Metal and Death Metal are two entirely different genres right?

[JCC]

American Death Metal isn't a genre. It's Death Metal... from America. Lamb of God have this 'Pure American Metal' shtick, doesn't mean that they're American Death Metal, some different genre.

[James Most Bizzare]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

You do know American Death Metal and Death Metal are two entirely different genres right?

Dude all those bands I listed are American. Thats why I listed those particular death metal bands. And they all sound nothing like Lamb of God. American death metal, if anything, is a scene, not a genre. There is no single defining charcteristic that separates America's death metal from that of any other country. There may be some regional idiosyncracies, but not anything sufficient enough to constitute a different genre.

[NightmareInShiningArmour]

I used to be obsessed with Slipknot. I'm not as much now, but I'm going to see them live in October.

Lamb of God is good and I don't see HOW THE HELL you could label them as metalcore. I'd say Death Metal.

I reckon that this would sound interesting.
You could do a mix of pig squeals (grindcore) but don't sing whole verses in them, just a few words or sentences because it fucks up a song when you over use it, but sounds good when it's just occasional, good ol' fashioned Death Growls are good too for a chorus or something and then some punk lyrics too with some nice Death Metal drums, Decent riffs... Punk maybe.

Hell I dunno how that would sound. Probably like a blender xD.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by NightmareInShiningArmour

I used to be obsessed with Slipknot. I'm not as much now, but I'm going to see them live in October.

Lamb of God is good and I don't see HOW THE HELL you could label them as metalcore. I'd say Death Metal.

I reckon that this would sound interesting.
You could do a mix of pig squeals (grindcore) but don't sing whole verses in them, just a few words or sentences because it fucks up a song when you over use it, but sounds good when it's just occasional, good ol' fashioned Death Growls are good too for a chorus or something and then some punk lyrics too with some nice Death Metal drums, Decent riffs... Punk maybe.

Hell I dunno how that would sound. Probably like a blender xD.

Geez! You mixed all the things of both genres that I hate!

I mean like punk lyrics and vocals with more metal guitar and drumming.

[NightmareInShiningArmour]

Damn. There goes my suggestion haha.

[JCC]

Lamb of God are not Death Metal! Lamb of God have completely different song structures to anything classifiable as Death Metal, have never used blastbeats, don't have Death Metal vocals and their music quite clearly has more in common with Thrash and Post-Thrash than it ever did with Death Metal.

Pig squeals are NOT Grindcore. Grindcore vocals are Death Metal vocals taken to the very extreme, often incomprehensible, it's the sound you'd get from someone's throat being eroded by acid. Not Bring Me The Horizon.

[Mir]

Last I checked, Lamb of God were labeled math metal. And yes, I like 'em.

[JCC]

Lamb of God aren't Math Metal by any stretch. Compare Psyopus to LoG. I class LoG as Post-Thrash.