Gothic Discrimination in School

[Fae-wolf]

My college professor loves the way I dress, she thinks it's cute!

Though, teacher's here in my schools could care less how you dressed so long as you got good grades.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Fae-wolf

could care less

I hate this phrase. Of all of the things that you American dogs have done to butcher our great tongue, the worst crime of all is the ridiculous modification of the entirely functional phrase: "couldn't care less". The phrase "couldn't care less" implies a complete lack of care towards the subject of the phrase, it is a brilliant, powerful statement of apathy. "Could care less", on the other hand, is fucking stupid. Obviously, if you could care less, you do care, which means that every sentence where an American says "could care less", they actually mean, "couldn't care less", which is rather the equivalent of saying "black" every time you mean "white" just to be a confusing prick.

[Tam Li Hua]

JCC: Yeah, that annoys me too.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

In nearly every workplace, you can't dress however you like. School should prepare you for that.

In nearly every workplace, you will need to be smart enough to obey orders, but not smart enough to question them.
Do you agree then that schools are great because they know teach compliance rather than the pursuit of knowledge?

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by JCC

I hate this phrase. Of all of the things that you American dogs have done to butcher our great tongue, the worst crime of all is the ridiculous modification of the entirely functional phrase: "couldn't care less". The phrase "couldn't care less" implies a complete lack of care towards the subject of the phrase, it is a brilliant, powerful statement of apathy. "Could care less", on the other hand, is fucking stupid. Obviously, if you could care less, you do care, which means that every sentence where an American says "could care less", they actually mean, "couldn't care less", which is rather the equivalent of saying "black" every time you mean "white" just to be a confusing prick.

Let me sketch it out in black and black for you, limey: I could care less what you think.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Let me sketch it out in black and black for you, limey: I could care less what you think.

I will box your black ass over this, I'm Jake LaMotta and you're that pretty-faced jobber that I clobber.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

In nearly every workplace, you will need to be smart enough to obey orders, but not smart enough to question them.
Do you agree then that schools are great because they know teach compliance rather than the pursuit of knowledge?

No, and honestly, mine didn't. Clothing isn't that fucking important, and it's ridiculous to say that you're being taught not to question rules by not being allowed to wear chains and spikes.

I highly doubt most schools would have a problem with a student dressing goth so long as it was tasteful, not distracting, and not dangerous.

Also, even if you were taught to obey rules, that doesn't mean you think you have to, or that you don't know the difference between stupid rules you obey anyway to make things smoother, and rules that are truly unjust and should be ignored or fought against.

[Mr E Nigma]

Originally Posted by JCC

I hate this phrase. Of all of the things that you American dogs have done to butcher our great tongue, the worst crime of all is the ridiculous modification of the entirely functional phrase: "couldn't care less". The phrase "couldn't care less" implies a complete lack of care towards the subject of the phrase, it is a brilliant, powerful statement of apathy. "Could care less", on the other hand, is fucking stupid. Obviously, if you could care less, you do care, which means that every sentence where an American says "could care less", they actually mean, "couldn't care less", which is rather the equivalent of saying "black" every time you mean "white" just to be a confusing prick.

I feel your pain... and I have to live over here.. -_-

Not to mention my annoyance with people using the word "Irregardless."


Our school never made any ban towards trench coats, chains, etc... once in awhile if it was cold enough I'd wear my long coat and boots. No one thought it was out of the ordinary, the theater kids wore wacky shit all the time anyways, so I guess our school really didn't care.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

No, and honestly, mine didn't. Clothing isn't that fucking important, and it's ridiculous to say that you're being taught not to question rules by not being allowed to wear chains and spikes.

I highly doubt most schools would have a problem with a student dressing goth so long as it was tasteful, not distracting, and not dangerous.

Also, even if you were taught to obey rules, that doesn't mean you think you have to, or that you don't know the difference between stupid rules you obey anyway to make things smoother, and rules that are truly unjust and should be ignored or fought against.

Quoted for Truth.

Besides, if you don't want an office job, there's no rule saying you -have- to get one; there's plenty of work out there for more eccentric folks who don't like the idea of doing the 9 to 5 grind. And, even if you have to do the Grind for a while, you can probably still slip some corporate Goth style into your attire, which I do all the time. =)

[Godslayer Jillian]

So you two choose when to generalize and when not to, huh?
American schools are designed to make students compliant. Memorization rather than critical inquiry.
Most jobs want this.
So "in nearly every workplace, you can't dress however you like. School should prepare you for that"
In nearly every workplace, you are required basic understanding and total compliance, nothing more. But yet schools shouldn't prepare you for that because there's a minority of jobs that don't require this, just as there's a minority of jobs that let people dress as they want?

[Underwater Ophelia]

...I really don't see the problem.
If schools train you to be compliant, and you're too stupid not to be, how is that the school's problem?
And what the fuck does that have to do with what you wear?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

If schools train you to be compliant, and you're too stupid not to be, how is that the school's problem?

Does that even mean anything?

[Tam Li Hua]

Jillian: Different jobs require different dress codes. Not all office jobs require the same level of professional style. Thus, it would be sort of a difficult thing to teach in school.

Not only that, but jobs that are -not- office jobs may require completely different attire.

As for critical inquiry and memorization, I just don't think that learning Algebraic formulas in Math or doing exercise in P. E. would require that much critical inquiry, unless you were just bored and wanted to suggest something different to the teacher.

Seriously, none of this is quite the serious and detrimental horror that you are imagining.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Look, I'm not defending my stance of "schools shouldn't allow kids to wear anything they want" anymore, because you're a moron if you disagree.

[Godslayer Jillian]

And you're an idiot if you believe that's the implication of "In nearly every workplace, you can't dress however you like. School should prepare you for that."

[Godslayer Jillian]

Hell, you'd be an idiot if you think I disagree with "schools shouldn't allow kids to wear anything they want"

[Mr E Nigma]

Yeah, honestly from the outside it seemed a bit like you were both arguing the same side to eachother...

[JCC]

Schools should let us wear anything that we want; this will prepare us for asking our employers why we have to dress a certain way to do an office job.

[Malice In Wonderland]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Let me sketch it out in black and black for you, limey: I could care less what you think.

I'm glad it bothers you too.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

Schools should let us wear anything that we want; this will prepare us for asking our employers why we have to dress a certain way to do an office job.

You shouldn't be allowed to wear anything you want.

Someone is PAYING you to do something.
You're certainly allowed to not like it.
Then quit, and find work somewhere else.

No one is forcing you to take any specific job. If you want to be able to have a pink mohawk and ten inch spikes coming out of your pants, then you are 100% free to find a job where that's acceptable.

At school, there are very good reasons why you can't dress that way. It IS distracting to some kids, and it is dangerous. The school is liable for your safety, and even if you aren't planning on puncturing a kid's neck with your spiked collar, you could fall down the stairs and kill yourself. That would be on the school.
They shouldn't have to pay your parents in a lawsuit because you couldn't wait until 3PM to put you spiked collar on.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Wait, so you agree that no one forces someone to take a job they don't want due to dress codes, so you agree that those people should be forced into a dress code beforehand?

You really can't see what I'm arguing here? Your opinions make no sense.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

At school, there are very good reasons why you can't dress that way. It IS distracting to some kids, and it is dangerous. The school is liable for your safety, and even if you aren't planning on puncturing a kid's neck with your spiked collar, you could fall down the stairs and kill yourself. That would be on the school.
They shouldn't have to pay your parents in a lawsuit because you couldn't wait until 3PM to put you spiked collar on.

You know, metal spikes and other potentially dangerous stuff I get, but surely if someone finds the sight of a pink mohawk (for example) SO distracting that it actually interferes with their learning...... they should be in a school for ADD kids anyway. As you've pointed out, your boss has a right to ask that you dress a certain way because they pay you (that's a whole 'nother argument I can't be assed to get into), but kids are not paid to attend school - in fact they're forced to. The banning of outfits for any reason other than reasonable grounds to speculate that it contains something dangerous is simply control for control's sake. As someone who thinks fashion is retarded anyway and agrees that no, what you wear ISN'T really that important, I nonetheless don't understand why you have no problem whatsoever with this.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Wait, so you agree that no one forces someone to take a job they don't want due to dress codes, so you agree that those people should be forced into a dress code beforehand?

You really can't see what I'm arguing here? Your opinions make no sense.

Yes they do.
You aren't forced into taking a job where there is a dress code.
However, nearly all decent paying (traditional, and not including tattoo artist or rock star) jobs will require one.
So it makes sense that you should get used to the fact that you can't always get what you want.

However, if it's THAT fucking important to be able to dress outlandishly at work, there are jobs that will accept that.

What about that doesn't make sense?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

You know, metal spikes and other potentially dangerous stuff I get, but surely if someone finds the sight of a pink mohawk (for example) SO distracting that it actually interferes with their learning...... they should be in a school for ADD kids anyway. As you've pointed out, your boss has a right to ask that you dress a certain way because they pay you (that's a whole 'nother argument I can't be assed to get into), but kids are not paid to attend school - in fact they're forced to. The banning of outfits for any reason other than reasonable grounds to speculate that it contains something dangerous is simply control for control's sake. As someone who thinks fashion is retarded anyway and agrees that no, what you wear ISN'T really that important, I nonetheless don't understand why you have no problem whatsoever with this.

I do agree that if someone is that distracted then they should be in a special school, but those schools cost money, and lots of it.

Even if someone has the money for it, everyone in this country is guaranteed a free education (sort of, but that's for a different thread), and it's pretty fucked up to deny that right because some asshole wants a pink mohawk.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Yes they do.
You aren't forced into taking a job where there is a dress code.
However, nearly all decent paying (traditional, and not including tattoo artist or rock star) jobs will require one.
So it makes sense that you should get used to the fact that you can't always get what you want.

However, if it's THAT fucking important to be able to dress outlandishly at work, there are jobs that will accept that.

What about that doesn't make sense?

The fact that, by your own logic, if you really want school to mirror the job world, then they should be teaching them to be responsible for what they wear. Instead, you agree that students shouldn't be given any option in the matter at all.
How does that follow?