Want Perspectives from ALL races

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

It's not a misconception, though. There ARE black gangbangers, just like there ARE white racist murderers.

To be ashamed to be black because there are black gangbangers is to say they represent you.
They shouldn't represent her any more than white gangbangers.

I meant misconception in that other people can get this image that one race behaves a certain way (even if everyone of a certain race doesn't behave one way). I know you and JCC would not read an article about a black gangbanger and go 'all black people are like that' or start getting that idea, but a lot of people will, and do. It pains me to imagine that a person gets the wrong image of me because of another person, when they don't know me and often I'll wish I was of another race because I'd rather not have that image bestowed upon my person.

[JCC]

That doesn't make you ashamed to be a part of your race, that makes you nervous as to how people will react to you because of your race.

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by JCC

That doesn't make you ashamed to be a part of your race, that makes you nervous as to how people will react to you because of your race.

Yeah. That's a better word choice. Thanks for that.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

I meant misconception in that other people can get this image that one race behaves a certain way (even if everyone of a certain race doesn't behave one way). I know you and JCC would not read an article about a black gangbanger and go 'all black people are like that' or start getting that idea, but a lot of people will, and do. It pains me to imagine that a person gets the wrong image of me because of another person, when they don't know me and often I'll wish I was of another race because I'd rather not have that image bestowed upon my person.

Why the hell would you care what people like that think?

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Why the hell would you care what people like that think?

'People like that', are not always bad people. When I said what I said, I didn't mean racist, I meant just people in general. I know people that are my friends, but had all these misconceptions about what black people were like and not because they were cruel, noose-swinging, Klansmen, but because they where ignorant and just unaware of the reality.

[~~Auriel~~]

People stereotype and generalize sometimes without realizing that they are doing it. I think this is something that is more challenging for minorities, but some whites can give other races a bad impression. And yes, "ashamed" wasn't the right word. But I don't want people to generalize me because of the stereotypes/generalizatons/radical groups that exist. K-K-K. Skinheads. Black Panthers. Savages.
It's mostly the media's fault. I think we more often see on T.V. that people are being racist than not. They will jump on anything that brings viewers. People want to talk about it, but are afraid to because they are afraid that if they do they will be called racist. Cache 22 really.
Native Americans are the only race that have a financial support system for the community. (Yes! Casinos!) That's because part of their "old ways" and religion is that the community functions as a means of supporting the whole community, not leaving a member behind. Socialist economy really. Other minorities could benefit from this example. Although, I'm not sure how functional it would be, as it could easily separate the races more.
Many times I have been on the local reservation at the Casino and people in the elevator say, "Well, it's time to donate to the Indians..." Which is incredibly racist. Then they turn around to look at me and my husband for confirmation that their joke was funny and as soon as they catch my eyes they quickly look away or down at the floor.
Mostly, you really just can't let it get to you. If you get angry, you lose the battle against racism. I often get off the elevator and laugh with my husband at how embarassed the person was that they made that comment right in front of me. I say, "Did you see that guy's face?!?!" And I do actually find it quite funny.
I lived in Tennessee for a while, and some people still fly the confederate flag there. I would have people...people I didn't even know come up to me and say, "What are ya?" I would reply, very puzzled, "What do you mean?" They would say, "Well, are ya a sp!!k, or what cause you ain't white..." Ummm... RUDE! But I blew it off. To ignorance and intolerance. That's really what it is. I'm not going to let some dipshit ruin my day because he's a friggin moron. That point of view works for me.
Anyone else have some examples of experiencing racist attitudes that they would like to share?

[Godslayer Jillian]

The Black Panthers are awesome.

[KontanKarite]

Oh man... I wonder how a lot of you would react at my job. They're not politically correct, but the actual racism thing isn't an issue there. :-/

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Oh man... I wonder how a lot of you would react at my job. They're not politically correct, but the actual racism thing isn't an issue there. :-/

What's your job Kontan?

[Lolly PopMuzik]

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

Also, part of what he said was basically what I said. I said that we need BET for now, but I don't like having one. It's the same concept with Black History Month.

It pains me to imagine that a person gets the wrong image of me because of another person, when they don't know me and often I'll wish I was of another race because I'd rather not have that image bestowed upon my person.

Not when whatever educational and good programming on the network got booted off the air. If they had kept the intelligent wonderful messages and programs that did us some good back in the 90s, it would be a much stronger network.

And no, you were NOT serious with that last remark.

[KontanKarite]

Right now: A haunted house actor.

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Lolly PopMuzik

Not when whatever educational and good programming on the network got booted off the air. If they had kept the intelligent wonderful messages and programs that did us some good back in the 90s, it would be a much stronger network.

And no, you were NOT serious with that last remark.

I am agree with that statement, but BET occasionally has crap that not well crap. It's not all rappers, and 'tricks'. Ive seen enough commercials to know that. They often have education videos on black leaders.

I was serious.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Right now: A haunted house actor.

Then today's your day, I assume. =]

[MitsyMayhem]

I was in the middle of editing and my time went up. But as I was going to say:

I can agree with that statement, but BET occasionally has crap that not well crap. It's not all rappers, and 'tricks' (as it seems like you think it is). I've watched videos with my mom last year, once I think back. They often have education videos on black leaders, which are pretty good. But we would be better off with educational programs.

I was serious.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

The Black Panthers are awesome.

Being a Marxist-Leninist/Maoist Black Nationalist group that only accepts black people and has been ragged on by its own members for black racism is far from awesome.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by JCC

Who would want a history of white people in America anyway?

"We came, we killed the native inhabitants of the land that had called it home for generations. We made it our own land and forced them all out. We later enslaved black people to work on our plantations, and then released them, but still kept them unequal. We were renowned for our anti-semitism, and we segregated races during the 60s."

It would be one depressing landmark.

I'm sorry if this has been addressed already, but here's my response:


Who would want a history of white people in America? How could you have a history of any portion of the modern world without including white people? You say it would be depressing? No shit. History is DEPRESSING. It's full of murder, betrayal, exploitation, slavery, genocide, etc. And these things being perpetrated by ALL races, I might add. But you can't ignore those things simply because you find them unpleasant. Otherwise, why not just write a fairy tale instead of history?

Even then, fairy tales can be kind of grim....


As for the email? I've heard that defense of racism before, but the notion still rings hollow. It unintentionally makes some good points about inequality, but the truth is that those problems were created by guilt-ridden whites in their pathetic, half-assed attempts to remedy the ills of racism on the quick, and on the cheap.

Let's take the example of Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action is nothing but a weak, cardboard cutout of social equality that whites can point to whenever a "minority" screams racism. It's totally unfair, and should not be countenanced in a self-proclaimed egalitarian society.

What we should be doing is working to close the wealth gap between the races and social classes, improving education for all races and economic classes, and implementing social programs with some fucking oversight so that they would actually work. If we could manage to do those things, we wouldn't need Affirmative Action, nor its fucked up promises of an "equal" society through favoritism based on who your parents are.

Minority quotas, in the long run, only hurt the minorities that they seek to protect. Instead of playing favorites with under-qualified members of minority races, we, as a nation, should attempt to provide an equal chance for them from the start. In the end, if you're at the college level and you're relying on the color of your skin to make up for academic inadequacy, you're already fucked.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Cultural differences are a whole different beast than racism. If the Croatians want to be considered their own people, thats not racist, thats culture.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I think you need to read up on the nineteenth century pseudo-science of Social Darwinism, and the racial hierarchies created by jingo patriots in different Western nations. They were all, by modern standards, white, but they certainly didn't look at themselves as the same. Don't apply modern standards of race and racism to people that lived hundreds of years ago, or even your standards of equality to contemporaries that live in completely different societies.

Originally Posted by CptSterrn

Much like the right-wing in America who try and link religion with the current 'war on terror', the brits tried to link the Troubles in the North to religion, when the reality is nothing is further from the truth. The conflict in Northern Ireland is about self-rule. The same thing the American forefathers fought for - the right to govern their own country, the right to not pay tax to a foreign power across the sea. The brits are always trying to bring religion into it and efforts to keep the public behind it. If you believe the conflict is about religion, then you don't know much about the conflict.

You blame the Brits, champion the Irish, and then condemn Americans for unmitigated jingoism? Your one-sided viewpoint is badly skewed. You fail to take into account anything beyond modern perceptions of right, wrong, and racist.

In the prior comment quoted here, you state that culture and race cannot be conflated. What do you think the British did during the sixteenth century when Sir Walter Raleigh and the like were knocking on Ireland's door? Even today, such racism exists. Do you you think that self-proclaimed Aryans would take southern Europeans or Slavs into their ranks, simply because some fucking form lumps them all together as whites? You really don't see any racism between whites, past or present? Are you LOOKING?

Originally Posted by CptSterrn

The amount of racist organisations here is nothing compared to there. Sure you can find the odd skinhead or nazi here or there, maybe even a few larger groups like the national front in some areas, but the reality is its nothing compared to the number of hate groups which thrive in America. You don't see them engaging in violence here like they do there. For example, we haven't had anyone drug to death behind a truck here for the colour of their skin. You don't see kids hanging nooses in trees and that sort of extremist behaviour here either.

Not saying the rest of the world is perfect, just saying racism seems to thrive in America like no where else in the world.

Again, based on what? You seem to be, rather than looking at racism as it exists in its various forms across the globe, redefining it (and poorly, at that) to include only white, American prejudices against other races in the United States. You're obviously a polemical fucknut. Grind some other axe, because you're only hurting your own blatantly anti-American cause by spouting this illogical tripe.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by JCC

Being a Marxist-Leninist/Maoist Black Nationalist group that only accepts black people and has been ragged on by its own members for black racism is far from awesome.

The black panthers themselves derided the idea of black socialism for a socialism without race exclusivity even in the sixties. You won't be able to point out an instance where white people where actually excluded. In most videos of congregations, there's almost as many white people as there are black people.

[~~Auriel~~]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

As for the email? I've heard that defense of racism before, but the notion still rings hollow. It unintentionally makes some good points about inequality, but the truth is that those problems were created by guilt-ridden whites in their pathetic, half-assed attempts to remedy the ills of racism on the quick, and on the cheap.

Let's take the example of Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action is nothing but a weak, cardboard cutout of social equality that whites can point to whenever a "minority" screams racism. It's totally unfair, and should not be countenanced in a self-proclaimed egalitarian society.

What we should be doing is working to close the wealth gap between the races and social classes, improving education for all races and economic classes, and implementing social programs with some fucking oversight so that they would actually work. If we could manage to do those things, we wouldn't need Affirmative Action, nor its fucked up promises of an "equal" society through favoritism based on who your parents are.

Minority quotas, in the long run, only hurt the minorities that they seek to protect. Instead of playing favorites with under-qualified members of minority races, we, as a nation, should attempt to provide an equal chance for them from the start. In the end, if you're at the college level and you're relying on the color of your skin to make up for academic inadequacy, you're already fucked.

I like your perspective on this topic. I think for the most part, you're right.

Do you think if Barak Obama is elected that having a President of mixed race will help, or add to the racism in America?

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by ~~Auriel~~

Do you think if Barak Obama is elected that having a President of mixed race will help, or add to the racism in America?

It's a mixed bag, really. I think that having Obama as a president will definitely fire racial hatreds in some, mostly rural, areas. But, to the rest of the world, it will signal that the United States does have some progressives living in it.

Again, I'm not saying he should be elected because he's black, but he IS remarkably intelligent, well-spoken, and is backed by a lot of smart men. I think that choosing Obama over McCain will show other nations that Americans really are capable of choosing the superior over the inferior man, regardless of skin color.

Are there those that will vote for Obama simply because he's black? Of course there are. But that's not why I want him in office. I want him there because I think he will do a better job.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

This is absolutely ridiculous. I think you need to read up on the nineteenth century pseudo-science of Social Darwinism, and the racial hierarchies created by jingo patriots in different Western nations. They were all, by modern standards, white, but they certainly didn't look at themselves as the same. Don't apply modern standards of race and racism to people that lived hundreds of years ago, or even your standards of equality to contemporaries that live in completely different societies.

I think you need to actually go out and visit some of these places instead of reading 19th century literature and trying to base your world view of a people on a dusty old book. Having been to, and lived with, people from various parts of this region, I can tell you their conflict has little to do with race and everything to do with culture and values.

You blame the Brits, champion the Irish, and then condemn Americans for unmitigated jingoism? Your one-sided viewpoint is badly skewed. You fail to take into account anything beyond modern perceptions of right, wrong, and racist.

I'm a dogmatic person if nothing else. There is only right, wrong, and little grey area.

In the prior comment quoted here, you state that culture and race cannot be conflated. What do you think the British did during the sixteenth century when Sir Walter Raleigh and the like were knocking on Ireland's door?

I have no idea what your trying to exemplify in this statement, but during the sixteenth century you had the brits trying to ethnically cleanse Ireland. This again was done under the guise of killing Catholics, but the reality again was a push for political power.

Even today, such racism exists. Do you you think that self-proclaimed Aryans would take southern Europeans or Slavs into their ranks, simply because some fucking form lumps them all together as whites? You really don't see any racism between whites, past or present? Are you LOOKING?

Racism doesn't exist among whites in Europe, not on the levels it exists between whites and blacks in America. There is no established history of this, no history of anything even ranking near what happened during the slavery years in America or the years after when they had the Jim Crowe laws and 'separate but equal'. Sure, you will always have a small aryan group here or there, but they base their hate on silly ignorance, not state sponsored second-classism.

Again, based on what? You seem to be, rather than looking at racism as it exists in its various forms across the globe, redefining it (and poorly, at that) to include only white, American prejudices against other races in the United States. You're obviously a polemical fucknut. Grind some other axe, because you're only hurting your own blatantly anti-American cause by spouting this illogical tripe.

You can tell you have never left America. Your basing your world opinion on books your read, in America, and have never seen Western or Eastern Europe. You can base your ideas on whatever you want, but without actually meeting people in these areas and actually speaking with them, then you can't really be taken seriously as you only know what you have read in books mate. I myself have been there, lived in these places, and speak with people from there on a regular basis.

So please, from all your book learning, find me any instances in Europe where the people were involved in things like dragging people behind trucks, making persons of colour sit on the back of the bus, burning crosses, lynching, etc.

If calling those things racist makes me 'anti-American', then I'm not sure the America your trying to support is one anyone wants to support.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Racism doesn't exist among whites in Europe, not on the levels it exists between whites and blacks in America. There is no established history of this, no history of anything even ranking near what happened during the slavery years in America or the years after when they had the Jim Crowe laws and 'separate but equal'. Sure, you will always have a small aryan group here or there, but they base their hate on silly ignorance, not state sponsored second-classism.

So where does "ethnic cleansing" come from?

Originally Posted by CptSternn

So please, from all your book learning, find me any instances in Europe where the people were involved in things like dragging people behind trucks, making persons of colour sit on the back of the bus, burning crosses, lynching, etc.

The Belgian Congo, North Africa, South Africa, India, Ceylon, the Dutch East Indies, Southeast Asia, what we now call the Middle East, the Caribbean, South America....

Granted, there were no buses, but shall we draw a parallel between that and segregated railway cars in British India?

Do you not see my point? Does the racial component of European imperialism mean nothing?

Also, if you're looking for a good comparison between white-on-white slavery, and American enslavement of blacks, take a look at serfdom in Russia. Unless, of course, looking at history is just too much book-learning.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

If calling those things racist makes me 'anti-American', then I'm not sure the America your trying to support is one anyone wants to support.

I never said calling those things racist makes you anti-American. I said that you write polemics aimed at America. If you think I'm going to sit here and defend the United States, you're wrong. But it's obvious that you do have an axe to grind.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Further examples from Europe proper:

Turkish genocide of Armenians; the Holocaust (obviously); the wars of ethnic cleansing between the former states of Yugoslavia; racial animosity between urbanized Czechs and rural, conservative slovaks; wars of ethnic cleansing on the Balkan peninsula in general; the Germanic definition of citizenship being dependent on your "blood", etc.

Also, the biggest point: the fact that liquidation and elimination of an entire social class was not included under the post-WW2 definition of "Genocide" simply because the Soviet Union's representatives vetoed that inclusion.

[Apathy's_Child]

There's no point employing reason, Pinstripes. Sternn has been everywhere and seen everything, and there's no considered, well-researched, intelligent conjecture that he can't trump with an anecdote (usually while implying that because you occasionally crack a book, you're a babe in the woods with no clue as to how tough it is out in the real world).

[JCC]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

I'm sorry if this has been addressed already, but here's my response:


Who would want a history of white people in America? How could you have a history of any portion of the modern world without including white people? You say it would be depressing? No shit. History is DEPRESSING. It's full of murder, betrayal, exploitation, slavery, genocide, etc. And these things being perpetrated by ALL races, I might add. But you can't ignore those things simply because you find them unpleasant. Otherwise, why not just write a fairy tale instead of history?

Even then, fairy tales can be kind of grim....

I didn't say we should censor or change history. I'm saying that a history retrospective ENTIRELY about white people in America would really only have negative things to say, at least black history, whilst being a silly and needless exercise in segregation, has an inspirational story to tell.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I know someone mentioned this already, but there is already white history.
It's generally called history. The whole Western World is the history of white people, particularly Saxons.