Goth: The product

[NightmareInShiningArmour]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

You have missed my point entirely. While I share your thoughts to a degree, this isn't just about clothing. It's about buying yourself into an arbitrary lifestyle.

If you were to identify as a goth, yet had no inclination to avoid buying into something that is basically a pre-packaged identity, then what kind of goth does that make?

Somehow, I've lead you to believe this is about clothes, when it's more about identity. Why buy into something that's manufactured to make you look distressed? Paying top dollar to appear poor and artsy. It's kind of weird.

It doesn't make a goth. It makes someone who wants to be part of a subculture/lifestyle. Someone who can't truly fit in or identify with people who are genuinely goth.

It's been mentioned there are still people out there who are true goths, though our subculture may be dying out it's not quite dead yet. It's unfortunately becoming commercialized and becoming more of a mainstream thing with brands like Tripp, Demonia and Lip Service leading the way in America through Hot Topic.

Does someone who buys Tripp pants, Demonia boots and a Lip Service bondage jacket automatically become goth? No. Society may view them as so but it doesn't mean they are. You can't buy an identity. Not a real one. Tripp and friends aren't goth, they're just commercialized 'alternative' crap.

I apologise in advance if you see me as dense and that I still don't get the point you are trying to get through. It's just my interpretation.

[ÇâlegaDominú]

Next Up:

GOTH: the shampoo
GOTH: the throwrugs
GOTH: l'eau du toilette!
GOTH: The oven-mittens
GOTH: The comforter set (with matching bat pillows)

For all your gothissential needs.

[KontanKarite]

Yeah, you guys pretty much get it.

[Clockwork]

It hasn't lost its meaning, its meaning has just become obscured.

Don't ever start saying goth is all about Demonia boots and Twilight, that'll only make one less person to insist its true meaning.

People are social learners, aren't they? If there was more talk about Real Gothic Matters, it'd be adopted by the rest.

[Godslayer Jillian]

It's obscure meaning is still nothing more than a fanbase.
Bauhaus is still the only band of all deserving of having their logo on my jacket. But besides that... a legitimate goth club in your town, some legit goths as friends, maybe meeting Dinah Cancer somewhere down the line, but what's the point?
What's the difference between that and anything else? Than any other scene? The point of any scene? That's what Kontan's talking about.

[Clockwork]

I suppose the point is that it is satisfying. Liking something and sharing the appreciation with a few others feels good when most every one else has far different tastes.

It's only useful until you grow bored of such tastes.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Goth is not a product. Sure, there are products targeted at goth consumers, but the products don't make goth. Quite the contrary, goth makes the products. If there were no goths, most of those products wouldn't exist. The problem is that there are a lot of goth scene kids who buy the most stereotypical and uninspired clothes and accessories just to be part of the scene... and that results in the unfortunate blurring of the line between what is goth and what is something not quite.

[Tam Li Hua]

I was thinking about this on the way home the other day, and I think I came up with an explanation.

I think that when we are teenagers, that we -need- to feel like we belong somewhere, and so these terms are ten times more serious than they are when we grow up: Goth, punk, metalhead, whatever. But then we mature, and realize that, aside from the fashion and the music, we really aren't that different from the other folks around us.

What's more, I sometimes wonder what would happen to all these subcultures if there was a huge disaster that blew our comfortable society apart, and we had to rebuild from the ground up. Sure, some of the music may survive...but would we really care about who's wearing what or who's listening to what?

I guess my point is this: When it comes down to the basics, how important are all these labels in the long run? Are folks going to remember Goth as it is now 300 years from now? Is anyone even going to care? Or is Goth going to be absorbed into history like the Rennaissance [sp?] and the barbarians of old?

[Sorry if this is rather dark. ^_^;;;]

[NightmareInShiningArmour]

Of course we will be! There's gonna be documentaries on goths, just like there are cavemen.
*standing over a skeleton with spiked wrist bands, torn jeans and a death hawk with a Sex Gang Children leather jacket*
"This is the 'deathrocker', a form of goth and his jacket with 'Sex Gang Children', a popular deathrock band, has been preserved by time, along with his death hawk".

[Jonathan]

I guess basically, it comes down to a question about whether the goth scene is a means to an end, or if the goth scene is an end in and of itself.

I consider myself an artsy guy. I like associating with artsy intelligent people, because I enjoy their company, like being challenged in some areas, and getting exposed to new and interesting viewpoints. For a long time, the goth club was just the best place to go to find this. It was a convenient meeting point for people looking for similar things.

I'm not sure it is like that anymore.

At least this board hasn't disappointed me. The vapidness is easy enough to overlook if it gets me in touch with people that seem to be awake.

[Wormboy]

I find myself wondering if the things I am intending are doing are ____ (insert subgenre I relate to).

Then I realize that I'm being a prick and I should just do what I like not what fits some asinine prefabricated image.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

What's the difference between that and anything else? Than any other scene? The point of any scene? That's what Kontan's talking about.

I understand what Kontan's talking about, the truth is, that there isn't a point. No subculture or scene has a real point. The formula is just to do what you like. Wether that's Wearing black and listening to some Post-Punk, Listening to Hip-Hop and rapping, Listening to Gabber and taking ecstasy etc. It's all just to make you happy. Even if there weren't all the labels and clubs, we'd still be doing what we enjoy.

[Tam Li Hua]

^ Couldn't have said it better myself.