Gothic Discrimination in School

[Tam Li Hua]

Jillian: Different jobs require different dress codes. Not all office jobs require the same level of professional style. Thus, it would be sort of a difficult thing to teach in school.

Not only that, but jobs that are -not- office jobs may require completely different attire.

As for critical inquiry and memorization, I just don't think that learning Algebraic formulas in Math or doing exercise in P. E. would require that much critical inquiry, unless you were just bored and wanted to suggest something different to the teacher.

Seriously, none of this is quite the serious and detrimental horror that you are imagining.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Look, I'm not defending my stance of "schools shouldn't allow kids to wear anything they want" anymore, because you're a moron if you disagree.

[Godslayer Jillian]

And you're an idiot if you believe that's the implication of "In nearly every workplace, you can't dress however you like. School should prepare you for that."

[Godslayer Jillian]

Hell, you'd be an idiot if you think I disagree with "schools shouldn't allow kids to wear anything they want"

[Mr E Nigma]

Yeah, honestly from the outside it seemed a bit like you were both arguing the same side to eachother...

[JCC]

Schools should let us wear anything that we want; this will prepare us for asking our employers why we have to dress a certain way to do an office job.

[Malice In Wonderland]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Let me sketch it out in black and black for you, limey: I could care less what you think.

I'm glad it bothers you too.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

Schools should let us wear anything that we want; this will prepare us for asking our employers why we have to dress a certain way to do an office job.

You shouldn't be allowed to wear anything you want.

Someone is PAYING you to do something.
You're certainly allowed to not like it.
Then quit, and find work somewhere else.

No one is forcing you to take any specific job. If you want to be able to have a pink mohawk and ten inch spikes coming out of your pants, then you are 100% free to find a job where that's acceptable.

At school, there are very good reasons why you can't dress that way. It IS distracting to some kids, and it is dangerous. The school is liable for your safety, and even if you aren't planning on puncturing a kid's neck with your spiked collar, you could fall down the stairs and kill yourself. That would be on the school.
They shouldn't have to pay your parents in a lawsuit because you couldn't wait until 3PM to put you spiked collar on.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Wait, so you agree that no one forces someone to take a job they don't want due to dress codes, so you agree that those people should be forced into a dress code beforehand?

You really can't see what I'm arguing here? Your opinions make no sense.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

At school, there are very good reasons why you can't dress that way. It IS distracting to some kids, and it is dangerous. The school is liable for your safety, and even if you aren't planning on puncturing a kid's neck with your spiked collar, you could fall down the stairs and kill yourself. That would be on the school.
They shouldn't have to pay your parents in a lawsuit because you couldn't wait until 3PM to put you spiked collar on.

You know, metal spikes and other potentially dangerous stuff I get, but surely if someone finds the sight of a pink mohawk (for example) SO distracting that it actually interferes with their learning...... they should be in a school for ADD kids anyway. As you've pointed out, your boss has a right to ask that you dress a certain way because they pay you (that's a whole 'nother argument I can't be assed to get into), but kids are not paid to attend school - in fact they're forced to. The banning of outfits for any reason other than reasonable grounds to speculate that it contains something dangerous is simply control for control's sake. As someone who thinks fashion is retarded anyway and agrees that no, what you wear ISN'T really that important, I nonetheless don't understand why you have no problem whatsoever with this.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Wait, so you agree that no one forces someone to take a job they don't want due to dress codes, so you agree that those people should be forced into a dress code beforehand?

You really can't see what I'm arguing here? Your opinions make no sense.

Yes they do.
You aren't forced into taking a job where there is a dress code.
However, nearly all decent paying (traditional, and not including tattoo artist or rock star) jobs will require one.
So it makes sense that you should get used to the fact that you can't always get what you want.

However, if it's THAT fucking important to be able to dress outlandishly at work, there are jobs that will accept that.

What about that doesn't make sense?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

You know, metal spikes and other potentially dangerous stuff I get, but surely if someone finds the sight of a pink mohawk (for example) SO distracting that it actually interferes with their learning...... they should be in a school for ADD kids anyway. As you've pointed out, your boss has a right to ask that you dress a certain way because they pay you (that's a whole 'nother argument I can't be assed to get into), but kids are not paid to attend school - in fact they're forced to. The banning of outfits for any reason other than reasonable grounds to speculate that it contains something dangerous is simply control for control's sake. As someone who thinks fashion is retarded anyway and agrees that no, what you wear ISN'T really that important, I nonetheless don't understand why you have no problem whatsoever with this.

I do agree that if someone is that distracted then they should be in a special school, but those schools cost money, and lots of it.

Even if someone has the money for it, everyone in this country is guaranteed a free education (sort of, but that's for a different thread), and it's pretty fucked up to deny that right because some asshole wants a pink mohawk.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Yes they do.
You aren't forced into taking a job where there is a dress code.
However, nearly all decent paying (traditional, and not including tattoo artist or rock star) jobs will require one.
So it makes sense that you should get used to the fact that you can't always get what you want.

However, if it's THAT fucking important to be able to dress outlandishly at work, there are jobs that will accept that.

What about that doesn't make sense?

The fact that, by your own logic, if you really want school to mirror the job world, then they should be teaching them to be responsible for what they wear. Instead, you agree that students shouldn't be given any option in the matter at all.
How does that follow?

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I do agree that if someone is that distracted then they should be in a special school, but those schools cost money, and lots of it.

Even if someone has the money for it, everyone in this country is guaranteed a free education (sort of, but that's for a different thread), and it's pretty fucked up to deny that right because some asshole wants a pink mohawk.

Oh, come on - I was being a little flip with the special school thing. Is the fact that someone's wearing an off-the-wall outfit really THAT distracting? For more than 20 seconds? Even if you really do have ADD? I suspect it has more to do with outdated notions of appropriateness than protecting the right to free education.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

I suspect it has more to do with outdated notions of appropriateness than protecting the right to free education.

That's obvious. Who would argue against flamboyant clothing in the name of free education?
Even ignoring the absurdity of that claim, how do you draw the line? Nothing distracts teenage males more than a pretty girl. Why aren't you doing anything to stop this distraction?

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Even ignoring the absurdity of that claim, how do you draw the line? Nothing distracts teenage males more than a pretty girl. Why aren't you doing anything to stop this distraction?

Actually, I'm considering starting a petition. All schools should have basement dungeons for the pretty girls, so that the distraction they generate can be channelled into fulfilling after-school activities.

[Tam Li Hua]

Apathy's_Child: But what about gay teen boys? Locking up the girls won't help them not become distracted.

[Apathy's_Child]

These things take time, but long-term aims of the project state that within a few years all the students will be separated out concentration camp-style. Then NO ONE will get distracted and the children of America shall evolve into a new breed of genii. Better?

I think I just saved the free world.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

You shouldn't be allowed to wear anything you want.

Someone is PAYING you to do something.
You're certainly allowed to not like it.
Then quit, and find work somewhere else.

That's not the fucking point, I'm just asking why someone needs a fucking dress code for an office job. You always do this shit, someone says something and you jump in trying to be a beacon of maturity and just end up saying something shitty like "It's school, you have no rights" or "Your parents want to uproot you completely with no regard for you or your needs as a teenager with their own life? Stop being such a whingy cunt" or "If you don't like the rules that are a fairly ubiquitous part of working life so you can't take the advice that I'm about to give you anyway, just leave." Dress codes aren't necessary for an office job. Your opinion on everything seems to be that figures of authority should never justify any decisions.

[Tam Li Hua]

JCC: Usually potential employees don't fight their potential bosses about the dress code because it's just not that big of a deal. Also, whoever one works for in an office most likely didn't have a say in the dress code any more than any other employee does. However, if it bothers you that much after you're hired, you can always seek out the person who's in charge of it, and ask them about it in a mature and adult manner.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

JCC: Usually potential employees don't fight their potential bosses about the dress code because it's just not that big of a deal. Also, whoever one works for in an office most likely didn't have a say in the dress code any more than any other employee does.

I'm not implying that it's a large issue, although it does really baffle me that so worthless a rule is so widespread.

[Godslayer Jillian]

And like always, Tam misses the point.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm not implying that it's a large issue, although it does really baffle me that so worthless a rule is so widespread.

I dunno; I figured it spread in similar ways as to how any other fashion trend spreads.

Jillian: That's fine with me; the basis for this whole conversation seemed a bit odd to me anyways.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

That's not the fucking point, I'm just asking why someone needs a fucking dress code for an office job. You always do this shit, someone says something and you jump in trying to be a beacon of maturity and just end up saying something shitty like "It's school, you have no rights" or "Your parents want to uproot you completely with no regard for you or your needs as a teenager with their own life? Stop being such a whingy cunt" or "If you don't like the rules that are a fairly ubiquitous part of working life so you can't take the advice that I'm about to give you anyway, just leave." Dress codes aren't necessary for an office job. Your opinion on everything seems to be that figures of authority should never justify any decisions.

I never said anything about all offices having dress codes.
Some do, some don't.
Either way is perfectly fair to me.


And my opinion is not that figures of authority should never justify their decisions, but in some cases, they shouldn't have to.

If I own a business and require that everyone there wears assless chaps, and you accept the job, it's not ridiculous to ask you to wear assless chaps, because when you accepted the job, you were agreeing to its terms.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm not implying that it's a large issue, although it does really baffle me that so worthless a rule is so widespread.

Honestly, it's not worthless.
People get uptight about stupid shit all the time.

If this happens in an office, things don't go smoothly, and productivity goes down.
That's why HR exists.

If I go to an office job wearing a shirt that says I LOVE TO FUCK CHILDREN, people are going to be upset, and people who are upset don't work as well.

As you know, some people are idiots/sheltered/uptight, and would get offended by someone wearing goth or otherwise flamboyant clothing.
Why should the owner of a business tolerate low productivity so you can feel like you're expressing yourself at work?