Gothic Discrimination in School - Page 16

KontanKarite · 03-31-2009, 02:40 PM

Offensive dress? Perhaps.

Then again, who's responsibility is it to govern one's reactions?

If I'm so offended by the way one looks, it's better for me to keep quiet.

But if for example it's a work environment, where gender roles, social stigmas, and arbitrary ideas of being adult are reinforced, who's to blame?

It's not the employer, actually. It's people themselves. It's the customer, the consumer.

I'm willing to bet that MORE employers DON'T care about how you express yourself and actually admire it. BUT, the problem is, the CUSTOMER DEMANDS you to conform to a certain aesthetic that doesn't offend their weak and feeble sensibilities.

It's the customers' responsibility to stop being so fucking prejudiced.

As for the company itself, where ever it's at, they're only there to create a good product and make as much money as possible. To do that, they're going to meet demands, weather that's by product or by social norms.

So in short, if anyone is the asshole, it's the customer.

JCC · 03-31-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

If I go to an office job wearing a shirt that says I LOVE TO FUCK CHILDREN, people are going to be upset, and people who are upset don't work as well.

Why the fuck would anyone say "Yay, I can wear what I want; time to wear a shirt about fucking children!" and don't you think that's a little different to just not having to wear a uniform? You might as well say that we should all walk around in uniform wherever we are, otherwise there's the possibility that someone will wear a shirt saying "I hate nigg*ers."

Underwater Ophelia · 03-31-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

Why the fuck would anyone say "Yay, I can wear what I want; time to wear a shirt about fucking children!" and don't you think that's a little different to just not having to wear a uniform? You might as well say that we should all walk around in uniform wherever we are, otherwise there's the possibility that someone will wear a shirt saying "I hate nigg*ers."

You missed the point or are just being difficult.

JCC · 04-01-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

You missed the point or are just being difficult.

Part of it is just being difficult but generally I'm just wondering why you have this kneejerk assumption that if adults at work are told that they no longer have to wear a uniform, it would be a bad thing because they might start wearing offensive things. Would you, or anyone that you know, wear an intentionally upsetting shirt anywhere, let alone at work?

Solumina · 04-01-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

Part of it is just being difficult but generally I'm just wondering why you have this kneejerk assumption that if adults at work are told that they no longer have to wear a uniform, it would be a bad thing because they might start wearing offensive things. Would you, or anyone that you know, wear an intentionally upsetting shirt anywhere, let alone at work?

Some people just don't get that their clothing may cause problems. I worked with a woman who saw no problem with the fact that her thong was showing because her pants were too low and her shirts didn't come down far enough. This was a grown woman, with a degree, who worked in county planning and development. There was no office dress code so when her boss asked her to cover up she got all pissy about how she was being discriminated against for being an attractive women. I have also seen people go to work wearing pj pants and not understanding why their coworkers don't treat them with much respect, some people just have a really weird idea of what is and isn't appropriate.

Apathy's_Child · 04-01-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

Some people just don't get that their clothing may cause problems. I worked with a woman who saw no problem with the fact that her thong was showing because her pants were too low and her shirts didn't come down far enough. This was a grown woman, with a degree, who worked in county planning and development. There was no office dress code so when her boss asked her to cover up she got all pissy about how she was being discriminated against for being an attractive women.

Is that really justifiable cause for offense? If she wants to show her ass a little, why should anyone who's not her care?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

I have also seen people go to work wearing pj pants and not understanding why their coworkers don't treat them with much respect, some people just have a really weird idea of what is and isn't appropriate.

But surely this would become self-regulating - i.e. most people wouldn't do this BECAUSE of the lack of respect it might incur.

If they're too dumb to get it, I doubt they've got that much upstairs anyway.

I understand your point about the attitudes that make dressing however you like a problem - I guess I just don't see those attitudes as being worthy of validation, when they say more about the pissy jobsworth co-worker with a throbbing temple-vein than they do about the woman with her thong showing.

2 of my new favorite British slang expressions in one post, I'm happy.

Tam Li Hua · 04-01-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Is that really justifiable cause for offense?

If the pants are particularly low, or the woman is particularly large [I don't mean just a little overweight, but rather someone who's 300+ lbs, give or take], then yes.

It's similar to going to the beach and seeing an old, wrinkled man in a thong. It's just not something folks, in general, want to have to see in public.

Do both parties still have the right to wear such things? Sure. But the general public also has the right to be appalled by it.

Quote:

If they're too dumb to get it, I doubt they've got that much upstairs anyway.

Everyone has quirks. That doesn't make them any less intelligent or deep.

a morbid curiosity · 04-01-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

If the pants are particularly low, or the woman is particularly large [I don't mean just a little overweight, but rather someone who's 300+ lbs, give or take], then yes.

It's similar to going to the beach and seeing an old, wrinkled man in a thong. It's just not something folks, in general, want to have to see in public.

I chortled a little at that. :P
To be honest, Tam, I'm not sure that that can be justified as inappropriate as such.
It's not like it's emotionally traumatising. It's gross, sure, but it's not going to hurt you.

Solumina · 04-01-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Is that really justifiable cause for offense? If she wants to show her ass a little, why should anyone who's not her care?

Do you really not see how this is a justifiable cause for offense? Would you find that acceptable in the workplace? A government office no less?

Also for the record I'm sure that she was once really hot, maybe back in her 20's, but she has fried her skin to the texture of leather, covered in lots of lovely age spots. It bothered people to have to look at her on a day to day basis so people were actually avoiding going down to planning and development so work was not being done efficiently.

Apathy's_Child · 04-01-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

If the pants are particularly low, or the woman is particularly large [I don't mean just a little overweight, but rather someone who's 300+ lbs, give or take], then yes.

It's similar to going to the beach and seeing an old, wrinkled man in a thong. It's just not something folks, in general, want to have to see in public.

Do both parties still have the right to wear such things? Sure. But the general public also has the right to be appalled by it.

I really do get that, but being appalled by it is not the same as banning it. I'm appalled by MCR, but I don't want a government that has the right to ban them. Yeah, yeah, I know it's their company - I just think most people would take being able to wear cut-offs when the temperature's over 100 over never having to see something they'll most likely see the second they step out into the street after work lets out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

Do you really not see how this is a justifiable cause for offense? Would you find that acceptable in the workplace? A government office no less?

Also for the record I'm sure that she was once really hot, maybe back in her 20's, but she has fried her skin to the texture of leather, covered in lots of lovely age spots.

Wow. I guess I just didn't see how hot she is/isn't as in any way being the point here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

It bothered people to have to look at her on a day to day basis so people were actually avoiding going down to planning and development so work was not being done efficiently.

That is way more unprofessional and childish than wearing a thong to work.

Solumina · 04-01-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Wow. I guess I just didn't see how hot she is/isn't as in any way being the point here.

Wow. I just didn't see how it was my point and not an afterthought due to Tams post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

That is way more unprofessional and childish than wearing a thong to work.

Yeah my coworkers frequently acted like spoiled children, but at least they were always professional when dealing with the public.

Apathy's_Child · 04-01-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

Wow. I just didn't see how it was my point and not an afterthought due to Tams post.

Oh, sorry - didn't get that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

Yeah my coworkers frequently acted like spoiled children, but at least they were always professional when dealing with the public.

See, I can understand demanding smart dress when there's a meeting with outsiders or you're dealing with a client. I'm not against playing by the rules on principle - I'm mostly talking about when there's no one around but the regular workers, as is very often the case in many jobs.

Solumina · 04-01-2009, 12:41 PM

She was working in county planning and development which means that she was in the office where people had to go if they wanted to get plans approved for any buildings so on any given day there were a few dozen members of the public. In most local government offices there are few people who aren't seen by the public on a regular basis.

Apathy's_Child · 04-01-2009, 01:03 PM

Yeah, I missed the fact that your job brings you into contact with the public. That's not really what I'm talking about - in that context, the boss asking her to put that shit away is fair enough. However I maintain that letting your work slide because you don't like the way a co-worker dresses is totally unprofessional.

Solumina · 04-01-2009, 01:13 PM

it is but it also isn't uncommon. If she had been hot then she would have been distracting because people would want to look at her, go out of their way to stop by her desk, lose their train of thought when she walked by, etc. As it was she was a distraction because she was a train wreck, people got thrown off by seeing something that was just so out of place, and people just didn't want to be around that.

Apathy's_Child · 04-01-2009, 01:17 PM

Yeah, but the fact that too much TV and not enough reading has rendered the average attention span equal to that of a gnat is not something I feel should be pandered to. If you seriously can't do your work because there's a hot person or a fat person in the vicinity, you're a mouth-breathing idiot. Looking twice is one thing, screwing up is another.

KontanKarite · 04-01-2009, 02:32 PM

Hmm...

If I can be indifferent to the way people look, then I'm ahead of the curb and so are the rest of you.

It's their fault that they have weak sensibilities.

Seriously, folks, last night I got cussed out for having my SCHOOL uniform on.

People just can't help themselves. May as well accept the fact that no matter what you do, people are going to be offended.

jathe · 11-14-2009, 12:57 AM

im new here but i have a story to tell about goth discrimination. i go to a school full of preps. and i dont hate every prep out there, no im only after the judgemental pricks that call me emo and satan worshiper. and dont get me wrong, i mean some of my friends are emo. but im goth. and they say i cut myself and all this other crap. so i wrote this paper about the differences between goths and emos and printed 117 copies of it. then me and all the other goths and emos at my school handed them out and glued them to the walls and stuff like that. well some of the ppl didnt like that so they started to ball them up and thro them at us. but on the other hand some people were inspired by it and wanted to becom goth. even some of the teachers. but then ppl started to get pissed and started to rip them and crap like that. so me and the rest of the goths and emos almost got into a lable war with the prepps. and the day ended to soon. me and my friends are writing more papers trying to get the word out about goth discrimination. and quite honestly all goths need to untite and fight against this crap cus if we are not allowed to pick on black ppl cus there black, then why should ppl be aloud to pick on goth cus we wear black?