Marx's response to the Gotha Program

[Godslayer Jillian]

You didn't bitchslap anyone. I PM'd your friend to see if he could "put him in his place" (I believe that's verbatim from my message). I assumed if you saw that even a friend thinks you went overboard, you wouldn't be such a pretentious asshole. I guess I was wrong.
If you believe that somehow takes away from the fact we all realize just how much of a pathetic dick you are, you're just wrong besides being miserable. I asked Kontan, Kontan knows and told you. Everyone else, I guess they just wanted to finally have a reason to let you know just how annoying you are to everyone.

[Despanan]

You know, I did some thinking about this, as to how and why this went from a simple internet flame-war over politics, to a DRAMA BOMB! and I think I have this figured out.

As I've stated before, arguing politics on this forum really doesn't matter to me. It's a diversion I engage in when I have nothing better to do.

However, I've also noticed that this attitude is not shared, by the likes of Jillian and JCC, etc. Even for internet flamewars these two (particularly Jillian) are-hyper-defensive about their politics, to the point, where at least one of them needs to enlist covert help, to try and "win".

Not only that, but other members of this forum, have gone on to take this argument completely out of the realm of politics, and attempt to go for blood with subjects that are completely unrelated. Now one could say this is because my post was too harsh, too pompous, too personal etc. but it's really not any different from the usual fair around here. We're all (for the most part) pompous, harsh, assholes to each other. So what makes this thread different?

The only conclusion I can come up with, that something this silly, would merit this huge of a response is thus:

I've always found it fascinating that so many goths are "all up onz" about Collectivist ideology. I mean we're dealing with people, who are at their core, usually, quite aggressively individualistic. (not to mention the fact that were these policies to be truly implemented, they would be some of the first shunned by this system.) Why embrace a system that is indeed, so often contrary to their own values?

The answer, is that politics is an accessory to some of you people. Here, on Gnet or in the club, your radical stances, are, at their core, no different than the mascara you apply to your faces, nor the skinny puppy shirt you don for an evening at the club. They are the same as the "dark" "brooding" sex poems you write to show everyone how "sensual" you are. I mean seriously, look at this thread. Do you really think "the revolution" is going to begin, or even take a step here? Hell no. Talking about politics on this forum is an exercise in masturbation not political discourse, and any attempt to see it otherwise is at best self-delusion. This is evidenced by stuff like the fact that Jillian spends his time here talking about the designs for his little anarchy club, or the fact that JCC sits at home in a sweater-vest using the internet on his parent's dime, to extoll the virtues of Anarcho-communism to other minors, pretenders, and/or finks.

And lots of you eat it up, because, lets face it, we all enjoy getting dressed up from time to time. I find it a fine little diversion when the mood strikes me, but, time to time, my tolerance threshold for bullshit is stretched a little thin, and I'm not going to be in the mood for more fantasy. I was a little rude, and for that I apologise, but quite frankly if JCC wants to act like a big, mean, internet tough guy, I'm going to treat him like one, and from time to time the gloves are going to come off. I'm not going to molly-coddle the guy because he's fourteen.

Lets all face it, this thread, this forum is not for politics, this is play-acting. It's social posturing in a make-believe world. It's a joke, maybe not a good one, but a joke none the less.

So basically, what I did, was I walked in, and pointed out that JCC's real name is Bernie Wienstien, and a couple of you people freaked out, because, appearances must be maintained. Hell hath no fury like a vampire scorned.

Now I don't expect for some of you to like what you've been told, but that doesn't make it any less than the truth. If it makes you feel better take some more points away, or make a few more derisive comments about my character. Or report me to the moderator because I was mean to you. It won't change the fact that this is a fucking joke. I know it, and you know it, and even if I'm the only one who's laughing, I assure you It's a good laugh I'm having.

[gothicusmaximus]

Despanan, I struggle to like you, and I have to say the biggest obstacle I face is the way in which you believe that extremely commonplace experiences and ideas are specific to you. "I went hiking! I had sex! I only go on internet forums in my FREE TIME!"
This forum is a diversion for fucking everyone. Nobody here thinks gnet is a career, or anything more than a way to occupy spare time. People reacted to your post as they did because, in this particular thread, gnet members were occupying their spare time by debating politics is a generally civil manner, not unavailingly disparaging others for inconsequential bullshit like their age.

[Godslayer Jillian]

That's quite a manifesto you wrote there to convince us you have more important things to do than talk to us.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

That's quite a manifesto you wrote there to convince us you have more important things to do than talk to us.

To be fair, it also served to remind us that JCC is fourteen. We were utterly unaware of that immensely relevant fact before, so Despanan was just making sure we remained enlightened by his totally rad verbal beatdown and didn't revert to thinking JCC was Che Guevera like we did before.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Despanan

No, this is a fact. Kontan told me. Jillian has been appealing to him in PMs for a while now. That's why Kontan posted in this thread. Whenever Jillian gets backed into a corner he sends out PM distress calls to kontan and who knows how many others (including, recently, in an argument with Opteron Man of all people.)

I had nothing to do with that.

Originally Posted by Despanan

No, he really did not. He gave me the pretense of it, and then he name dropped. That's not an argument, no matter how you slice it.

Let's review what actually went down:

I discussed the co-existence of mutualism and anarchist communism so that individualists and collectivists could both enjoy the lifestyle that they wished to lead without obstacle, and I explained what this would entail.

You came into the thread and started saying that I didn't understand socialism and that mutualism was simply a barter system, which is hilariously ironic. "JCC, this is retarded" you even said, without a hint of sarcasm. Furthermore, you even went to proclaim victory, which you've since denounced as a sign of being a loser.

I came back and told you that your notions were completely false and even gave another brief explanation of what mutualism was, the exchange of equivalent labour or equivalent amounts of the fruits of labour, an exchange for subsistence rather than profit, though I shouldn't have even bothered to explain it to you since I knew that your obstinacy and fucking boneheadedness would leave you to either misinterpret or disregard it.

THEN, I declared victory just as you had done, and even did it in jest rather than actually believing myself to be clear-cut victor as you had done (though, let's be honest, I am miles ahead of you in this little 'debate', both in the bitchslapping and in having legitimate points) and you went on a tirade about how you're superior to us because you do things with your time that don't involve Gnet, as if our lives only exist within the small bubble of an internet community dedicated to a decades-old music movement, because you're an obnoxious twat that should be fired out of a cannon face-first into a pit of swords.

Originally Posted by Despanan

It's a diversion. it's something I do in my off time. ie: off time as in something I do when I am bored. I was scanning the forums to kill time, and saw the idiot's victory claim. I verbally bitchslapped him so hard Jillian had to go plead with my friend to intervene, and he just happened to be lucky enough that Kontan and my friendship had experienced some tension lately.

It's a diversion for all of us. I doubt that anybody truly holds this place dear. As for verbally bitchslapping me, all you did was make a few comments about how I'm a teenager and then fuck off to pork some hillbilly and wank over how brilliant you think you are because of your unoriginal and worthless jabs.

Originally Posted by Despanan

However, I've also noticed that this attitude is not shared, by the likes of Jillian and JCC, etc. Even for internet flamewars these two (particularly Jillian) are-hyper-defensive about their politics, to the point, where at least one of them needs to enlist covert help, to try and "win".

You're an annoying, loud and bellicose halfwit, so I'm going to assume that you've seen 'America's Got Talent'. You know when those obese bitches with the acne and the bunions and shit come onstage and wail, and sincerely believe that they are sexy, sultry soul divas? Your delusional ramblings are remarkably similar.

Originally Posted by Despanan

Not only that, but other members of this forum, have gone on to take this argument completely out of the realm of politics, and attempt to go for blood with subjects that are completely unrelated. Now one could say this is because my post was too harsh, too pompous, too personal etc. but it's really not any different from the usual fair around here. We're all (for the most part) pompous, harsh, assholes to each other. So what makes this thread different?

No... I'm fairly sure that the ad hominems came from you.

Originally Posted by Despanan

The only conclusion I can come up with, that something this silly, would merit this huge of a response is thus:

I've always found it fascinating that so many goths are "all up onz" about Collectivist ideology. I mean we're dealing with people, who are at their core, usually, quite aggressively individualistic. (not to mention the fact that were these policies to be truly implemented, they would be some of the first shunned by this system.) Why embrace a system that is indeed, so often contrary to their own values?

I'm not aggressively individualistic. Besides which, how on earth do you infer that goths would be exempt from socialism?

Originally Posted by Despanan

I was a little rude, and for that I apologise, but quite frankly if JCC wants to act like a big, mean, internet tough guy, I'm going to treat him like one, and from time to time the gloves are going to come off. I'm not going to molly-coddle the guy because he's fourteen.

Internet tough guy? I was being uncharacteristically courteous. Besides, I'm fifteen.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do, such as read a book, because none of you do things external to the Gothic.net community, do you? This reference to something happening offline is a shocking and impressive statement to make to all of the other internet users on this forum that drink water from a straw so that they don't have to leave their computer chair and would rather feed themselves on spare electrical energy to power the computer parts that replace their organs than eat solid food. I expect that this will give me much leverage in the oncoming confrontation, and that everyone will look up to me as an archetype of life as a young adult.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

Nobody cares that you didn't keep arguing. If you'd just said "Can't reply again tonight, got plans." do you really think that anyone would give a shit? It's your pompous "LOOK AT ME, I'M GOING TO GO HAVE SEX WITH A WOMAN" bullshit like an infant that's about to get an ice cream and feels they have to brag about it to the poor kids. Don't rub your sexual conquests in my face, motherfucker.

Hahaha, that's not even the gayest thing about him having said that.
It's that he was totally lying.

If he were really banging a chick, why even reply about it? Just go do it.
While he was posting here, he should have been lighted scented candles and rubbing her pussy through her panties or some shit.

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by JCC

I had nothing to do with that.


Let's review what actually went down:

I discussed the co-existence of mutualism and anarchist communism so that individualists and collectivists could both enjoy the lifestyle that they wished to lead without obstacle, and I explained what this would entail.

You came into the thread and started saying that I didn't understand socialism and that mutualism was simply a barter system, which is hilariously ironic. "JCC, this is retarded" you even said, without a hint of sarcasm. Furthermore, you even went to proclaim victory, which you've since denounced as a sign of being a loser.

I came back and told you that your notions were completely false and even gave another brief explanation of what mutualism was, the exchange of equivalent labour or equivalent amounts of the fruits of labour, an exchange for subsistence rather than profit, though I shouldn't have even bothered to explain it to you since I knew that your obstinacy and fucking boneheadedness would leave you to either misinterpret or disregard it.

THEN, I declared victory just as you had done, and even did it in jest rather than actually believing myself to be clear-cut victor as you had done (though, let's be honest, I am miles ahead of you in this little 'debate', both in the bitchslapping and in having legitimate points) and you went on a tirade about how you're superior to us because you do things with your time that don't involve Gnet, as if our lives only exist within the small bubble of an internet community dedicated to a decades-old music movement, because you're an obnoxious twat that should be fired out of a cannon face-first into a pit of swords.


It's a diversion for all of us. I doubt that anybody truly holds this place dear. As for verbally bitchslapping me, all you did was make a few comments about how I'm a teenager and then fuck off to pork some hillbilly and wank over how brilliant you think you are because of your unoriginal and worthless jabs.


You're an annoying, loud and bellicose halfwit, so I'm going to assume that you've seen 'America's Got Talent'. You know when those obese bitches with the acne and the bunions and shit come onstage and wail, and sincerely believe that they are sexy, sultry soul divas? Your delusional ramblings are remarkably similar.


No... I'm fairly sure that the ad hominems came from you.


I'm not aggressively individualistic. Besides which, how on earth do you infer that goths would be exempt from socialism?


Internet tough guy? I was being uncharacteristically courteous. Besides, I'm fifteen.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do, such as read a book, because none of you do things external to the Gothic.net community, do you? This reference to something happening offline is a shocking and impressive statement to make to all of the other internet users on this forum that drink water from a straw so that they don't have to leave their computer chair and would rather feed themselves on spare electrical energy to power the computer parts that replace their organs than eat solid food. I expect that this will give me much leverage in the oncoming confrontation, and that everyone will look up to me as an archetype of life as a young adult.

JCC, you're scarier than Jillian. I mean that as a compliment.
I'll never argue with you unless I am damn well thinking before I type!

[Rasputin]

I am a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist, and Marx's idea is right since we are using are talents, respect,or perhaps savings just to get our daily needs. But the only only focus in getting our daily needs is our talent, our ability and contribution to a progressive society to make things possible from labor affairs to culture. DRM's idea is right since it is more into social security, on welfare created by the people from the people.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

I am a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist

So you're a bit of a prat then?