Rant Thread II

[Anima_Severem]

....Psychology class is going to be hell this semester.

And how do you know whether you're a lesbian or not? Or if it's just a phase? And how the hell do you go about coming out to your homophobic father and clueless mother?

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Anima_Severem

And how do you know whether you're a lesbian or not? Or if it's just a phase? And how the hell do you go about coming out to your homophobic father and clueless mother?

Most women have what is called fluid sexuality during adolescence and early adulthood (female sexuality appears to be significantly more complicated that male sexuality but it also hasn't been nearly as thoroughly studies).

Knowledge is most likely your best weapon against homophobia, you don't have to come right out and tell your dad, just mention this or that study that you found about it (your psych class will be an excellent reason to give him to explain why you are looking all of this up) so that he can get a better understanding of homosexuality. Hopefully this will make him more comfortable with the idea and then you can sit him down and calmly talk face to face (don't come out over the phone or through email) but it may not work in which case you may have to just take a leap of faith and hope he will accept you despite his homophobia, or choose to keep that part of your life silent. I hate to tell anyone this but sometimes the people you love wont except who you really are.






My A/C had stopped working, a quick look under the hood and well it is pretty obviously the compressor, that isn't a cheap fix, not by a long shot, and mommy dearest isn't going to help pay, despite it being her car (as she refuses to transfer the title to me) and despite paying nearly $10,000 worth of repairs for Erik over the past few years (all of which were his fault), and this is only my second repair (this isn't my fault, neither was the first as I came out to my car to find some of my bumper on the ground, and that was six years ago).

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Anima_Severem

....Psychology class is going to be hell this semester.

And how do you know whether you're a lesbian or not? Or if it's just a phase? And how the hell do you go about coming out to your homophobic father and clueless mother?

I found a pamphlet at the sexual health clinic about this, "I Think I Might Be Lesbian, Now What Do I Do?":

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/ind...730&Itemid=177

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Anima_Severem

And how do you know whether you're a lesbian or not?

Are you a woman?
Do you like other women in sexual and/or romantic ways?
Do you dislike men in sexual and/or romantic ways?

If you answered "yes" to all three of the above questions, congratulations, you're a lesbian.

Originally Posted by Anima_Severem

And how the hell do you go about coming out to your homophobic father and clueless mother?

Very slowly so that they eventually adjust to the idea, would be my advice. If your mom is clueless but would be accepting, try and get her on your side first.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Terminus

Are you a woman?
Do you like other women in sexual and/or romantic ways?
Do you dislike men in sexual and/or romantic ways?

If you answered "yes" to all three of the above questions, congratulations, you're a lesbian.

It's not that simple.

[Corpsey]

The Halloween II advertisements are really starting to irk me to no end.

I can't seem to look at one page of Gnet without cringing either at the comments or the advertisements. Either way its a loss - loss.

I hope they're gone by the time I get back next week.

[Saya]

Where you going?

I think she cut my hair a little bit too short >.< I'll try doing something with it tomorrow, thankfully my hair grows like crazy so it should be fine in a few weeks.

[Mr E Nigma]

Originally Posted by Anima_Severem

.And how the hell do you go about coming out to your homophobic father and clueless mother?

Just start bringing over the females and when the family is watching a movie and you're cuddling with her I'm sure they'd realize what was going on after awhile, at first they'd question it and think "Well they're just friends" but eventually after they see you kiss her multiple times on the mouth while they think you don't know they're watching, I'm sure they'd get the picture.

I'm in no way an expert on this stuff so It's very likely that the above would never work, that's just my short surmised opinion of a possible way to go about it. Subtlety.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

It's not that simple.

O rly?

I know it's not that simple, but posting a more in-depth and abstract answer won't accomplish more than what I gave.

[Saya]

I think it was your third point, maybe Anima does have some sexual or romantic interest in men and thats why she's not sure. So a more in depth answer would be better, there's no big check list for sexual orientation, much as it would be awesome and make life easier.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Saya

I think it was your third point, maybe Anima does have some sexual or romantic interest in men and thats why she's not sure.

If we're keeping the answer simple, then she can not be a lesbian if she has any sexual or romantic feelings for men. It's a priori knowledge that a lesbian only has sexual or romantic feelings for other women, so if she has sexual or romantic feelings for men, she logically can not be a lesbian.

Had I said anything more than that, I would have had to explain things like primarily being attracted to one gender, or having romantic feelings for one and sexual feelings for another. That would have distracted from my main point.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Terminus

If we're keeping the answer simple, then she can not be a lesbian if she has any sexual or romantic feelings for men. It's a priori knowledge that a lesbian only has sexual or romantic feelings for other women, so if she has sexual or romantic feelings for men, she logically can not be a lesbian.

It is pretty obvious that you only have a very basic knowledge of human sexuality, please in the future don't try to over simplify something that is incredibly complex and don't give black and white answers when none exist.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Terminus

If we're keeping the answer simple, then she can not be a lesbian if she has any sexual or romantic feelings for men. It's a priori knowledge that a lesbian only has sexual or romantic feelings for other women, so if she has sexual or romantic feelings for men, she logically can not be a lesbian.

Had I said anything more than that, I would have had to explain things like primarily being attracted to one gender, or having romantic feelings for one and sexual feelings for another. That would have distracted from my main point.

Not at all true. For example, a straight woman can be primarily interested in men, and have some interest in women but still identify as straight. Many, myself included just decide to not identify as anything because its too much of a headache to try and figure it out.

I've heard of women who date women identify as straight and women who have a boyfriend who still identify as lesbian, example reasoning: I've been a lesbian all my life, why should I change my sexual identity because of a man?

Its extremely personal, rather than just give her a check list we should just sow the seeds of thought so she can explore her sexuality and come to a conclusion about herself on her own.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Solumina

It is pretty obvious that you only have a very basic knowledge of human sexuality, please in the future don't try to over simplify something that is incredibly complex and don't give black and white answers when none exist.

Would you rather I have written paragraphs about the Kinsey scale or the Klein grid? Or how about a composition on why I disagree with a lot of Kinsey's assertions in both of his Sexual behavior of the human x"? It's pretty obvious that you can't ascertain what I know from two post, so please, in the future, don't assume what I do and do not know.

To both Saya and Solumina,

The point I was trying to make, and I apologize for not being explicitly clear on this, is that unless the poster wants an extremely detailed answer, we can only offer superficial answers that are black and white.

In this case, the literal definition of a lesbian is someone who prefers only women for either sexual or romantic relationships. That is why I said a priori knowledge, because saying that, "all lesbians prefer women", is identical to saying the classical example of, "all bachelors are unmarried". It's a self-evident truth because it meets the qualifications of the definition.

The questions I gave can simply rule out whether or not she meets the literal criteria of a lesbian. You can not be a literal lesbian and not want a sexual or romantic relationship with a woman, because then you don't prefer women, which is part of the criteria of being a lesbian. You can not be a literal lesbian and want a sexual or romantic relationships with a man, because then you'd prefer men, which is an exclusion for being a lesbian.

Besides which, all I said was, "If you answered "yes" to all three of the above questions, congratulations, you're a lesbian". Now, unless I'm mistaken, it logically follows that if she meets all of the qualifications, then she's a lesbian irregardless of whether she chooses to identify herself as one, or whether or not my point was too simplistic for your taste.

Again, I apologize with not being explicitly clear about the point I was trying to make, and I am saddened that you dislike what I have to say. However, unless you can find something logically invalid with what I said, I'd really like at least the consideration that I'm not trying to be a total dickwad.

[Corpsey]

Originally Posted by Saya

Where you going?

Off to visit my father to work for him for a week. By doing so and saving it all I will literally save all of my financial worries for the rest of the year. Plus, I get to hang with my Dad (Which happens rarely) and live on a farm that is completely powered by natural energy sources.

It's freakin' sweet.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Terminus

O rly?

I know it's not that simple, but posting a more in-depth and abstract answer won't accomplish more than what I gave.

The better answer doesn't is actually shorter and isn't at all absract.
The answer to questions like "How do I know if I'm a lesbian" is always "I don't know."

[Solumina]

>.<
Mom I love you dearly but you really need to stop making me freak out about money. I cannot see the balance in my savings account unless you go with me to the bank and we set it up together (or you transfer the account to me but I really don't mind having you on the account), which is fine except when you start telling me how worried you are about me and how quickly my saving are dwindling. Yesterday I was so worried that I wouldn't make it until October (when I will be making enough to cover me for two more months) that I had a panic attack but I couldn't reach you to check things out, today I find out that I currently have enough in that account to make it through December, that plus Howl-O-Scream will get me through February, and since I'll be enrolling in bartender school come the first week of November that should give me more than enough time to get a decent job. Yes, I know my situation isn't ideal but stop making me freak the hell out when I'm fine.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

The better answer doesn't is actually shorter and isn't at all absract.
The answer to questions like "How do I know if I'm a lesbian" is always "I don't know."

That doesn't accomplish more than what I said, as it is the declaration of a lack of an answer.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Terminus

That doesn't accomplish more than what I said, as it is the declaration of a lack of an answer.

Okay then I'll make it simple.

Do you feel as though you are a lesbian?
If yes then you are a lesbian.

That is as concrete of a diagnostic as one can give, the questions that you gave would include non-lesbians and would exclude some lesbians.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Solumina

...the questions that you gave would include non-lesbians and would exclude some lesbians.

If we are going by the literal definition, no, it would not.

[Solumina]

Then, as I previously stated, you are going with a definition that shows very little understanding of human sexuality. Don't make me get out a text book.

[Terminus]

Then, as I previously stated, you're going to need longer and more abstract answers.

If you do not use somewhat strict definitions, it's nearly impossible to give any kind of answer in any coherent form. You still haven't shown me where my logic is wrong.

Go ahead and get out your textbook, I can go ahead and dig up mine.

[Solumina]

A lesbian is a woman whose sexual orientation is towards other women (Understanding Human Sexuality, Hyde and Delmater), technically speaking bisexual women fall under this category as do genetically male individuals who identify as women and are attracted to women. Not to mention the very simple fact that nearly all lesbians (especially those who are unsure of their sexuality) have had romantic and/or sexual desires towards men at some point, if this is the case then all that you have done is further confuse the poor girl.


Honestly your post wouldn't have bothered me so much except for the fact that a much better response had already been made by Saya and you continue to argue about it. If you knew shit about human sexuality then you would agree that Saya's link held the closest thing that you can have to a concrete answer to her question and that your response was too limiting.

[Terminus]

Allow me to repeat the same thing I've been saying all along:

"If you do not use somewhat strict definitions..."
"If we are going by the literal definition..."
"In this case, the literal definition..."

This is reinforced by:
"of or relating to homosexuality between females" (Source)
"a woman who is sexually attracted to other women:" (Source)
"a female homosexual" (Source)

If you're not going to use a literal definition which can be ascertained by a priori knowledge, you're going to need a more complex answer like the one you provided.

Solumina, I'm not your enemy on this issue. I agree with the majority of what you're saying. However, what I originally posted can affirm that someone is a lesbian. I didn't say that if you answered "no" to any of the questions, you're not a lesbian. I only said that if you answered "yes" to all of the questions, you are a lesbian. I think you and I can both agree that if a woman only has sexual and romantic feelings for women, then she is a lesbian.

The reason I'm continuing to argue this is simple:

1. Nothing of what I originally said has been demonstrated to be logically invalid.

2. You're asserting what I do and do not know without having a basis for asserting what I do or do not know, and I'm offended by this because I have done nothing like that to you. I'm well aware that you're under no obligation to care where I'm offended, but I do not think it's unreasonable of me to defend myself against such accusations. This is especially true considering nothing I've said has been demonstrated to be logically invalid.

[Solumina]

When you are answering a "how do I know I am ____?" question and you give a set of criteria that would show you are ____ then many people will infer that if you do not meet those criteria then you are not ____, especially if that person is having a bit of a crisis, as appears to be the case here. You took something incredibly complex and boiled it down to three questions and anyone who answered yes to those questions would have found their answer in Saya's link (Lesbians are women who love women. Lesbians are sexually attracted to other women and their sexual feelings toward other women are normal and natural for them. Lesbians say they feel emotionally and spiritually closer to women and prefer intimate relationships with women) but there are many people who would not have answered yes to your questions who could have also found their answer in those words so why post something that isn't nearly as comprehensive and no more concrete?

If you changed woman to man as criteria for being gay then I would have maybe added some information but female sexuality does not work the same way that male sexuality does.


I do apologize for offending you but I was rather offended by your posts, especially the one in which you specifically said that a lesbian cannot have sexual feelings for men, which I have clearly shown to not be the case if you agreed with my last post.