What's wrong with Capitalism?

[Razeal18]

how so? what about my opinions of anarchy are incorrect?
no sarchasim no bullshit i really would like to know.

[SweetJane]

For one thing you act like it's never been done, and can never happen. Just look up the history of the Spanish Civil war and the communities that came out of both the urban center of Catalonia and the agrarian Aragon. There are accounts all over the world of anarchism in action, and no one within the community ever sabataged it- they were always brought down by the fascists or the bolsheviks or whoever else wanted to impose a state on the people.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by SweetJane

For one thing you act like it's never been done, and can never happen. Just look up the history of the Spanish Civil war and the communities that came out of both the urban center of Catalonia and the agrarian Aragon. There are accounts all over the world of anarchism in action, and no one within the community ever sabataged it- they were always brought down by the fascists or the bolsheviks or whoever else wanted to impose a state on the people.

Well to be fair, that's REALLY not the same thing as having a full-fledged state (or lackthereof). Holding a city or two during a time of civil war and declaring it a "collective" does not an anarchist society make. I mean don't get me wrong, it's super nifty that they were able to manage a community under the lack of a centralized state without it turning to chaos, but it's really not a realistic example of an anarchist STATE.

Raz: JCC is going to be more knowlegeable on this subject than me, so I'll just point out that the objections you've brought to the table aren't anything new, and have more or less all been rebutted by anarchist thinkers (though whether or not you accept the rebuttals is another matter). Basically I'm saying the reason you have gotten such a cold response is because the way you approached it is kinda like going up to a feminist and saying: have you considered the fact that some women are just bitchy? Or jumping into a higher level philosophy class and saying: Have you considered that the blue I see is different than the blue you see?

It kinda can make you sound like a jackass.

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by SweetJane

For one thing you act like it's never been done, and can never happen. Just look up the history of the Spanish Civil war and the communities that came out of both the urban center of Catalonia and the agrarian Aragon. There are accounts all over the world of anarchism in action, and no one within the community ever sabataged it- they were always brought down by the fascists or the bolsheviks or whoever else wanted to impose a state on the people.

I disagree. anarchy is a lack of government of anykind, these are examples of autonomous self goverment. true its a lack of a federal measure of control, but its still a system of government. if you advocate small government or autonomys state goverment its fine, but its not anarchy. the word anarchy by its definition is no government, now are you advocating small government and lack of federal government, or anarchy?

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by Despanan

It kinda can make you sound like a jackass.

its true i am a jackass. i am not thet most knowledgable person on the history of anarchy, politics, or very much of anything for that matter but i can sense bullshit when i see, read or step in it. i can go up to a mormon and say "really john smith cant repeat wat he said a day ago cause jesus is angry?( just like a jackass) or to a scientologist and say "have you ever considered the possability that the person who INVENTED this religion was also a failed science fiction wirter? (just like a jackass) no matter how much someone studies or is knowledgable on any subject from the atom to zeus there is alwayes a measure of bull shit i am willing to call them out on when i see it. i get wrapped up in my own bullshit too and i thank the kind jackasses i asscociate with (yay g.net) to help set me straight. freedom of thought and religion being what it is they have a right to shove thier head up their asses to the degree that defies phisics, so your right i guess i should just stay out of conversations that i am not extreamly well versed and practiced on.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Razeal18

I disagree. anarchy is a lack of government of anykind, these are examples of autonomous self goverment. true its a lack of a federal measure of control, but its still a system of government. if you advocate small government or autonomys state goverment its fine, but its not anarchy. the word anarchy by its definition is no government, now are you advocating small government and lack of federal government, or anarchy?

See? You're wrong and there's no argument to be had.

[Saya]

Am I the only one who is just ignoring him?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Saya

Am I the only one who is just ignoring him?

I don't know, you're the only one who decided to announce it.

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by JCC

See? You're wrong and there's no argument to be had.

please explain youself to my dimwitted and feeble mind
the definition of anarchy as you see it
the difference between anarchy and autonomous self government
the source of your universally superior knowledge

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Razeal18

its true i am a jackass. i am not thet most knowledgable person on the history of anarchy, politics, or very much of anything for that matter but i can sense bullshit when i see, read or step in it. i can go up to a mormon and say "really john smith cant repeat wat he said a day ago cause jesus is angry?( just like a jackass) or to a scientologist and say "have you ever considered the possability that the person who INVENTED this religion was also a failed science fiction wirter? (just like a jackass) no matter how much someone studies or is knowledgable on any subject from the atom to zeus there is alwayes a measure of bull shit i am willing to call them out on when i see it. i get wrapped up in my own bullshit too and i thank the kind jackasses i asscociate with (yay g.net) to help set me straight. freedom of thought and religion being what it is they have a right to shove thier head up their asses to the degree that defies phisics, so your right i guess i should just stay out of conversations that i am not extreamly well versed and practiced on.

okay, I'm totally cool with people calling bullshit, but what would be your purpose on calling out that bullshit? I mean if you just want to troll someone that approach is fine, but if you actually intend to persuade them as to the bullshittiness of their idea, you should at least take the time to learn what their argument is before you decide to defeat it. I would have no idea just how insane Alan really was, if I hadn't taken the time to understand what he actually was arguing for, and he would've had a much easier time dismissing my argument and convincing others that he's actually right.

You can be a much more effective asshole if you take the time to listen.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Dude, Alan

you're fucking crazy. What the hell happened to you?

I used to be a capitalist; I know most of its theory. It's real theory and real purpose; none of that bullshit you're trying to pass out as an argument which in fact has nothing to do with capitalism.
You, on the other hand, don't understand what the fuck you're talking about. you just 'feel' you're right and go with it.
Forgive me for having faith that you would think a little before passing judgment, especially when you implied I was ***** after a post that clearly shows Kontan is fucking contradicting himself. Are the people the problem, or didn't he say that people can be good?

[Alan]

By the way, why would a whole region not consist of as a state? just because it wasn't recognized as a state already? Even though the Asturias, an anarchist region that was much more productive than Barcelona itself, had about the same population as Belgium, which IS considered a state?

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by Despanan

okay, I'm totally cool with people calling bullshit, but what would be your purpose on calling out that bullshit? I mean if you just want to troll someone that approach is fine, but if you actually intend to persuade them as to the bullshittiness of their idea, you should at least take the time to learn what their argument is before you decide to defeat it. I would have no idea just how insane Alan really was, if I hadn't taken the time to understand what he actually was arguing for, and he would've had a much easier time dismissing my argument and convincing others that he's actually right.

You can be a much more effective asshole if you take the time to listen.

this is true, i'll try to do so in the future.

[SweetJane]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Well to be fair, that's REALLY not the same thing as having a full-fledged state (or lackthereof). Holding a city or two during a time of civil war and declaring it a "collective" does not an anarchist society make. I mean don't get me wrong, it's super nifty that they were able to manage a community under the lack of a centralized state without it turning to chaos, but it's really not a realistic example of an anarchist STATE.

I take your point, though its still a valid example of a large group of (anarchist) people who were able to hold directly democratic meetings and hold true to their ideals of of a classless collective, and they did pretty well besides being crushed by the Spanish fascists.

Mostly I was responding to Razeal's "everyone would get ***** and killed".

But now I realize, as I should have realized before, that there's no point in responding to anything Razeal says because he can't seem to grasp... well, any concept, as far as I can tell.


Basically, raz, your argument has been "Your ideas are wrong!" and then when we have a rebuttle, you respond "That's not what your idea was!"

[Alan]

Yeah. Why would you care about a guy that Sharpied his face with a 'Woman' sign, anyway?

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by Alan

Yeah. Why would you care about a guy that Sharpied his face with a 'Woman' sign, anyway?

CAUSE ITS SOO KEWL AND GAWTHIK!! ... or
its just something that i thought was cool but i digress

i can grasp lots of varied and complex concepts and ideals, but i am admitting that i was wrong to initiate myself in the conversation before getting the full concept of what the accepted definition of anarchy in this particular circle was. i guess i should start listening to you guys more and fuck off to whatever webster and his bullshit propagana has taught me !Damn the Man and Save the Empire!

[Alan]

So you think you're smart because the totality of your knowledge is a fucking dictionary, whose first definition of anarchy is not even about chaos?

You're a fucking idiot. You don't pay attention to the definition that talks about anarchy as a political idea; instead, you prefer to pay attention to the second one that says disorder, and ignore the third that leads you to Anarchism.

An ignorant person would just take the first one at face value. But you, with your bias to the second definition for no reason, are a fucking idiot.

[Razeal18]

no i know that i know nothing thats why i think i am so smart >
laudi laudi i shall never stray no mo. i's done seen da light o da anarchy and i's reborn. i's so sorry massa for makin you all mad wit my ignance o da dictionary. please mass dont beat me wit you big head and you smart brains enemo! i's try to read mo and bes smart likes you tells me too but iss so hard down here in da cella and i aints got no lights to read dem books you give me. mebe if you learned me right i'd bes smarta.

[Stormtrooper of Death]

See, again we're all too busy arguing about this stuff to get anything done.

Rather than yell and Razeal, how about you try to talk to him like a normal human being and educate him a bit on the topic at hand.

If everybody here knows so much about anarchy, then help the people who are less knowledgeable, rather than yell at them and loose whatever possible allies you could have.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Stormtrooper of Death

Rather than yell and Razeal, how about you try to talk to him like a normal human being

He's not a normal human being, he's an idiot.

[Razeal18]

there ya go trying to hurt my widdle feelings again jcc. well to respond on that level your a bad man and your feet stink.
and trooper points out something quite obviouse. i have been asking to indulge me with the universally superiour knowledge for a few dayes now and yet still i wander in darkness. i would also like to repeat my earlier misunderstanding of the excessive use of the shok term anarchy, when the examples givin were more directly defined by minimalist self government. wich i am fine with and to a degree agree with.

kisses jcc

[Despanan]

Yo, Alan: eyes up, your argument's with me not raz.

Originally Posted by Alan

I used to be a capitalist; I know most of its theory. It's real theory and real purpose; none of that bullshit you're trying to pass out as an argument which in fact has nothing to do with capitalism.

Wait, you "used to be a capitalist"? Does that make you like Whistler in Blade 2? Like he used to be a vampire, but Blade cured him, and now he's all grizzled and knows where their lair is? Cause that would be super cool! By all means enlighten us with this "secret capitalist knowledge" you gleaned in the time you spent drinking the blood of newborns!

You, on the other hand, don't understand what the fuck you're talking about. you just 'feel' you're right and go with it.

Yes, which is why my arguments are so full of actual examples, reasonable discourse and peppered with good-natured mockery, and yours are filled with ALLCAPS and blind assertions, because I'm the one who's being unreasonable.

Forgive me for having faith that you would think a little before passing judgment, especially when you implied I was ***** after a post that clearly shows Kontan is fucking contradicting himself. Are the people the problem, or didn't he say that people can be good?

Yeah, that was funny as shit. But seriously, it's a pretty obvious that he's not, this entire time our point has been that there are good capitalists and bad capitalists, just like there are good socialists and bad socialists. Kontan's friend is an example of this, as opposed to what you seem to be arguing: that capitali is some draught of hateraid that transforms innocent people into bloated, baby-devouring, bastions of death. Systems, creeds and governments grow out of humanity, not the other way around. Alan, why the hell can you not comprehend the duality of man? For that matter, why can't you wrap your mind around ANY kind of duality?

For cereal guy, you've been running around these forums for over a year trying to impose a brand of hypocrisy on any and everyone who doesn't respond to every singled DIFFERENT situation in the exact same way. That sort of behavior is not rational.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by SweetJane

Basically, raz, your argument has been "Your ideas are wrong!" and then when we have a rebuttle, you respond "That's not what your idea was!"

What a coincidence! That's what Jillian has been doing this entire time.

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by Despanan

What a coincidence! That's what Jillian has been doing this entire time.

jillian??? who dat?

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Razeal18

jillian??? who dat?

Jillian = Alan.