Obama flounders without teleprompters

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

I am not right wing or left wing.

Yeah, you are. You're right wing. You just can't see it because:

Because I can see the pitfalls of both parties.

Because you fucking believe the two parties are representative of the political spectrum.
You know they fail idiots in high school because of that shit?
I dislike both parties down to their core principles and it's because I'm from the left, not in spite of it.

If anything I'm a hard nosed Heavily Embattled Libertarian.

You're a Heavy Libertarian alright. That puts you on the right. You're a libertarian right winger. Better than being an authoritarian right winger like Palin or Pinochet, but you're still right wing, and if you don't understand that, you shouldn't be talking about politics.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Alan

Yeah, you are. You're right wing. You just can't see it because:

Because you fucking believe the two parties are representative of the political spectrum.
You know they fail idiots in high school because of that shit?
I dislike both parties down to their core principles and it's because I'm from the left, not in spite of it.

You're a Heavy Libertarian alright. That puts you on the right. You're a libertarian right winger. Better than being an authoritarian right winger like Palin or Pinochet, but you're still right wing, and if you don't understand that, you shouldn't be talking about politics.

Nice cheap shot.

I'm going to try and understand your on this view.

Okay then do you mind telling the reasons you think I'm right wing/ anything?

[Alan]

Cheap shot? That's been the most objective I've ever been with you.
Don't you hate socialism and think that Obama will become the next Stalin and shit? You're clearly right wing.

[JCC]

Actually, I'd say that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party demonstrate the main thrust of the political spectrum, the centre-left and the centre-right respectively, pretty well. Historically, the Democratic Party has been behind the rise of trade unionism, minimum wage, Social Security, progressive taxation, welfare and so on, and considering current healthcare reform proposals it's clear that the Democratic Party has a centre-left base, though it is obviously more centrist than leftist. You can argue that they're all part of the Business Party, a homogenized snaggle-toothed capitalist Megatron both dedicated to giving handjobs to the Rockefellers but your issue is that you're an anarchist and therefore the Democrats will never be far-left enough for you, not that the Democratic Party is right-wing, largely the same as that people like Alex Jones exist who would accuse Milton Friedman of being a communist if he gave his mother some money for the groceries (though the far left is clearly better than the far right). Perhaps the Democratic Party is right-wing by European standards but the general gist of the left-right divide is shown in the two main parties, superficially at least.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Alan

Cheap shot? That's been the most objective I've ever been with you.
Don't you hate socialism and think that Obama will become the next Stalin and shit? You're clearly right wing.

Actually I thought the same about Bush Jr. and still feel that he was one of the key factors for setting up the frame work for what is happening Right now.


Think about the most retarded guy to ever become the President of this country,his multiple slip ups on T.V. and just out and out stupidity anytime he was around his peers,it was a perfect smoke screen for his buddies to draw up the patriot act and to launch wars in the Middle-East.

Many forget or just don't know (Younger crowd) that the C.I.A. trained,supplied and armed Al-Qaeda in the 1980's to fight the Russian Invasion,not to mention that Bush Sr. was head of the C.I.A.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

Many forget or just don't know (Younger crowd) that the C.I.A. trained,supplied and armed Al-Qaeda in the 1980's to fight the Russian Invasion,not to mention that Bush Sr. was head of the C.I.A.

Everyone with an internet connection knows that.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by JCC

Actually, I'd say that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party demonstrate the main thrust of the political spectrum, the centre-left and the centre-right respectively, pretty well. Historically, the Democratic Party has been behind the rise of trade unionism, minimum wage, Social Security, progressive taxation, welfare and so on, and considering current healthcare reform proposals it's clear that the Democratic Party has a centre-left base, though it is obviously more centrist than leftist. You can argue that they're all part of the Business Party, a homogenized snaggle-toothed capitalist Megatron both dedicated to giving handjobs to the Rockefellers but your issue is that you're an anarchist and therefore the Democrats will never be far-left enough for you, not that the Democratic Party is right-wing, largely the same as that people like Alex Jones exist who would accuse Milton Friedman of being a communist if he gave his mother some money for the groceries (though the far left is clearly better than the far right). Perhaps the Democratic Party is right-wing by European standards but the general gist of the left-right divide is shown in the two main parties, superficially at least.

Well, most Americans do fall into the Center Right or Left. You have Democrats further to the Left than the party norm and Republicans on the far Right (Ted Kennedy, F.D.R and Dick Durbin on the left, Palin and Reagan on the Right) but the big shots in both cases are Centrists, as you pointed out (Clinton and Nixon being the examples that come to mind the first).

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by JCC

Everyone with an internet connection knows that.

I think a lot of people without one too...

[Deadmanwalking_05]

How many of you actually believe that 9/11/'01 was just a coincidence with the "Training Exercises" that just so happened to outline the attack that unfolded that morning?

How many of you know that on September/11th/1991 Bush Sr. was talking about a "NEW WORLD ORDER" then 10 years to the day on 9/11/'01,while his Eldest son is in his first term in office,an attack occurs that launches a war in the middle east,and also served as the basis for tightening controls on Individual Citizens freedoms (the Patriot Act).

Not to mention the already existing Alphabet Agencies like F.E.M.A. were handed broader authority,as well as a bigger operating budget.

[Alan]

JCC, of the examples you mention, the Democratic Party was only behind only social security and New Deal welfare, and both can only be attributed to Roosevelt. Before Roosevelt, the Democratic Party was the conservative party, so it's downright wrong to claim that the Democrats have been behind the leftist initiatives of America.
Sure, they NOW are on board with those principles, but not only did they not spearhead them, but they resisted trade unionism and minimum wages, plus the unmentioned eight hour labor day.

This does not take validity to the fact that they are centre-left as you mentioned it; I'm only saying that your assumptions of why they ought to be considered centre-left are wrong.

Nevertheless, you didn't actually make an argument for the assertion you're responding to. They represent centre-left and centre-right fairly well, but that does not mean that they then are representatives of THE political spectrum. The reason why people hate tunnel vision is because tunnel vision cannot make a judgment on the actual scenario, only on its narrowed view of it. That's kind of the point.
So I say that Deadman is stupid because he equates the Left with the Democrats and the Right with the Republicans, which is kind of saying Portugal is in the southern hemisphere and Spain is in the north. Saying that one party is obviously more to the left than the one that is to the right of it - and yes, of course that was going to sound redundant - isn't an argument against the fact that the Democrats are not the Left and Republicans are not the Right.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Alan

JCC, of the examples you mention, the Democratic Party was only behind only social security and New Deal welfare, and both can only be attributed to Roosevelt. Before Roosevelt, the Democratic Party was the conservative party, so it's downright wrong to claim that the Democrats have been behind the leftist initiatives of America.
Sure, they NOW are on board with those principles, but not only did they not spearhead them, but they resisted trade unionism and minimum wages, plus the unmentioned eight hour labor day.

This does not take validity to the fact that they are centre-left as you mentioned it; I'm only saying that your assumptions of why they ought to be considered centre-left are wrong.

Nevertheless, you didn't actually make an argument for the assertion you're responding to. They represent centre-left and centre-right fairly well, but that does not mean that they then are representatives of THE political spectrum. The reason why people hate tunnel vision is because tunnel vision cannot make a judgment on the actual scenario, only on its narrowed view of it. That's kind of the point.
So I say that Deadman is stupid because he equates the Left with the Democrats and the Right with the Republicans, which is kind of saying Portugal is in the southern hemisphere and Spain is in the north. Saying that one party is obviously more to the left than the one that is to the right of it - and yes, of course that was going to sound redundant - isn't an argument against the fact that the Democrats are not the Left and Republicans are not the Right.

That's the paradigm that people get caught up with in debates and discussions and why those debates and discussions degrade into mud slinging matches and pissing contests.

It doesn't matter what you assign to the Right Wing Democrats or the Left Wing Republicans,Red State/Blue State or any such combination of the two,it really doesn't matter because if you step back and take a long look at both parties,and how both function and persuade their constituents to the same end.

Both parties Fear monger as much as they can, as often as they can,and Over what ever they can.

They Toss out "Feel Good" policies that only succeed in making the average citizen pay a little more to curtail their freedoms as a result.

The Drug War is waged for the most part on U.S. Citizens by our own Government and Local Law Enforcement that we pay for.

Anti-Gun Ownership Policies Restrict a right that is not only the original law of this land (Second Amendment) but is a recognized Natural Right to Defense of self,family,Property,and country.

Anti-Gun Ownership policies were first started against minorities,in order to keep guns out of former "Slave" hands. (Not to mention that the legislation came from former slave owning Southern Democrats).

[Deadmanwalking_05]

(And it was probably Co-Signed by a Former Northern Republican Slave Owner.)

[Despanan]

Dude...you're a paranoid right winger in every sense of the word. You may not be a republican or an authoritarian but you're still right wing.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Emphasis on the paranoid.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

et cetera et cetera et cetera

Cool. Cool.

Can I ask you why you dissed the political spectrum and then only bitched about the two political parties (kind of my point about you) instead of arguing against the political spectrum?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Dude...you're a paranoid right winger in every sense of the word. You may not be a republican or an authoritarian but you're still right wing.

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Emphasis on the paranoid.

Really?

Why do you feel I'm paranoid?

Because I just gave a clear defined answer for why I'm trying to call attention to what is going on?

[Solumina]

Dude, you have hardly ever a clear defined answer for anything, let alone why you are the way you are. It all just comes out as a bunch of paranoid rambling.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Alan

Cool. Cool.

Can I ask you why you dissed the political spectrum and then only bitched about the two political parties (kind of my point about you) instead of arguing against the political spectrum?

I'm talking about the intertwined faults of both,as well as the interchangeability of both that add up to the whole picture.

If you don't get the meaning of that then I don't have anything else to say on the matter.

[Alan]

You say both parties are almost interchangeable....
therefore they are excellent icons of the polar opposites of the political spectrum?


Why do I even bother with you? I should be doing homework. You know, what with the working to have more than a high school education and all.

[CptSternn]

Compared to the rest of the world America is centre right. Even the democrats are centre right. The republicans there are even farther right of the centre, but there is no left parties in power in America, with the exception of the one single Socialist Party congressman and a handful of independants.

When you look at the rest of the first world (i.e. Europe, UK, Australia, Japan, etc.) even nation except America has socialised medicine. Every nation has free public housing, a dole system, and many other great socialised services which America has yet to embrace. Since there is no push for any of those principles yet, I would be hard pressed to say the democrats are even slightly left of centre. At best they are almost centre, compared to the rest of the world.

The rest of the modern world thinks things like food, shelter, and medicine are things that all citizens are entitled to, where as America seems to think these things should only come if a person can afford to buy them, regardless of if they pay taxes or not. That puts them right of the centre compared to the rest of the world. These days, everyone agrees the basic necessities are rights, not privileges, everyone except the American government.

[JCC]

Fuck, I should've seen that I was setting up Sternn for another anti-America diatribe.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Not like he needs to be set up.

[CptSternn]

I'm not anti-America, just anti-right. There is a difference.

[Still Jack]

I've never understood what Deadman is actually doing on this site. I get the feeling he's a troll. Either that or he's a) intensely stupid or b) banned from every gun forum online.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by JCC

Everyone with an internet connection knows that.

I loved reading the part in "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll when the Russians left Afghanistan and the CIA ran around like Keystone Cops trying to buy the American weapons back from the Afghan warlords.