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| Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right."
-H.L. Menken |
06-16-2010, 08:39 PM
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#426
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Idaho D:
Posts: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
That right there is a perfect example of why I don't buy the middle-ground bullshit.
It's just inconsistent and many times ignorant.
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I understand inconsistent, but explain ignorant.
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06-16-2010, 08:40 PM
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#427
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: victoria british columbia
Posts: 112
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in the horrible world outside of my academic utopia ReaLLLLy scary violence torture and misogyny happens! every day activists approach me and scare the living hell out of me....i want my living hell back..i cannot ignore them because they disturb me so....it is really quite metaphysical beyond my castle walls of nihilism...
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06-17-2010, 05:01 AM
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#428
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-pixie
I understand inconsistent, but explain ignorant.
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Saying that they are all flawed is deeply ignorant. Obviously they are all flawed but all of them can be argued to be better than the alternative, and I think you just denounce them all as impossible because you don't understand enough about any of them to properly argue a case.
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06-18-2010, 02:00 PM
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#429
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: victoria british columbia
Posts: 112
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I hope we can evolve to a new system, after we completely destroy the earth.. we may need to evolve physiologically before that happens because human nature only provides limited manifestations of government....our psyches are not developed enough or our social evolution hasn't developed to a state where we do not exploit one another, resources and animals......capitalism is psychotic due to it's primary mandate to increase profits..peolple will do desperate things to survive in this system
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06-18-2010, 03:07 PM
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#430
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Marxism is pretty self-sustainable.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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06-18-2010, 03:17 PM
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#431
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Marxism is pretty self-sustainable.
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That's an entirely hypothetical statement. Every incarnation of Marxism that has actually been realised has collapsed and failed to meet its fundamental principles. Capitalism may be a less moral system but it has stood the test of time far better than Marxism and has been applied as it was intended to be.
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06-18-2010, 04:28 PM
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#432
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Marxism is pretty self-sustainable.
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I really dont know how you can be saying this given the hisotrical evidence to suggest otherwise.
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06-19-2010, 09:36 PM
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#433
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 80
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Every system is imperfect. Every system is prone to corruption. There isn't anything negative that you can say about Capitalism that you can't say about any other system. Communists and Marxists are just as greedy as Capitalists. Why? Because people are people no matter what system you stick them in, and they are always going to find a way to screw each other over.
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06-20-2010, 02:01 AM
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#434
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowagony
Every system is imperfect. Every system is prone to corruption. There isn't anything negative that you can say about Capitalism that you can't say about any other system. Communists and Marxists are just as greedy as Capitalists. Why? Because people are people no matter what system you stick them in, and they are always going to find a way to screw each other over.
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This is stupid.
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06-20-2010, 11:55 AM
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#435
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hill-billy Hell! WOO!
Posts: 11
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I have very limited knowledge on this subject, but in my opinion, no system is perfect. Every governmental system has flaws that can and WILL be exploited. And while I may be entertained by the ego-centered nerd raging going on here, I believe you are both right, and you both are wrong. Neither of you has a completely correct arguement, but neither are either of you completely incorrect. It is not my place to state which of you is more-so in the right here, so I shall leave you all with the notion that everyone is correct in their own mind, and thus we are all wrong.
Live Long, Live Well.
-Az'Shara
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06-20-2010, 12:07 PM
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#436
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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My God, do none of you fucking notice that you're ALL coming in and acting like you're the only educated person ever to notice that no political philosophy is perfect? We got that memo when we were ten years old. If you're just going to try and discourage debate because your feeble knowledge of the subject means that you have to adopt a wishy-washy middle ground of not caring then don't bother saying anything.
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06-20-2010, 12:33 PM
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#437
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Worst part is they say
exactly
the same fucking thing.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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06-20-2010, 11:22 PM
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#438
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
This is stupid.
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No, that is stupid.
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06-20-2010, 11:25 PM
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#439
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
My God, do none of you fucking notice that you're ALL coming in and acting like you're the only educated person ever to notice that no political philosophy is perfect? We got that memo when we were ten years old. If you're just going to try and discourage debate because your feeble knowledge of the subject means that you have to adopt a wishy-washy middle ground of not caring then don't bother saying anything.
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No, not "you all". I'm just participating in the conversation and stating an opinion, that's all. I'm not acting like I'm the only educated person or trying to discourage debate. Just stating an opinion. What's wrong with that? Many of the gripes against Capitalism are pretty fucking universal and can be applied to any system. I mean, corruption? Come on!
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06-20-2010, 11:52 PM
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#440
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Every incarnation of Marxism that has actually been realised has collapsed and failed to meet its fundamental principles. Capitalism may be a less moral system but it has stood the test of time far better than Marxism and has been applied as it was intended to be.
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With the many exceptions which you obviously have overlooked like in Sweden, Ireland, most of South America today, and Scandinavia to name a few.
Capitalism has failed many times - look at Chile under the US backed Pinochet or even more recent - Iceland and Greece.
You might want to qualify statements like the one above before making broad accusations about governments, especially since they are many, many more than I have listed that can be used to disprove your statement.
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06-21-2010, 02:57 AM
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#441
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
With the many exceptions which you obviously have overlooked like in Sweden, Ireland, most of South America today, and Scandinavia to name a few.
Capitalism has failed many times - look at Chile under the US backed Pinochet or even more recent - Iceland and Greece.
You might want to qualify statements like the one above before making broad accusations about governments, especially since they are many, many more than I have listed that can be used to disprove your statement.
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Yeah, because Sweden is a Marxist country.
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06-21-2010, 06:58 AM
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#442
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius
Posts: 1,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
With the many exceptions which you obviously have overlooked like in Sweden, Ireland, most of South America today, and Scandinavia to name a few.
Capitalism has failed many times - look at Chile under the US backed Pinochet or even more recent - Iceland and Greece.
You might want to qualify statements like the one above before making broad accusations about governments, especially since they are many, many more than I have listed that can be used to disprove your statement.
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I think he means purely marxist
__________________
Because before too long there'll be nothing left alive, not a creature on the land or sea, a bird in the sky. They'll be shot, harpooned, eaten, and hunted too much, vivisected by the clever men who prove that there's no such things as a fair world with live and let live. The Royal family go hunting, what an example to give to the people they lead and that don't include me, I've seen enough pain and torture of those who can't speak...
- Tough Shit, Mickey by Conflict
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06-21-2010, 04:43 PM
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#443
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowagony
Many of the gripes against Capitalism are pretty fucking universal and can be applied to any system. I mean, corruption? Come on!
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Can you point out where someone said that a problem of capitalism is corruption?
Because I have to go an tell that person that he's also fucking stupid.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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06-21-2010, 11:31 PM
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#444
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack
I think he means purely marxist
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There has never been a purely Marxist country. Then again, there has never been a purely capitalistic country either.
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06-22-2010, 12:27 AM
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#445
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Can you point out where someone said that a problem of capitalism is corruption?
Because I have to go an tell that person that he's also fucking stupid.
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Oh, aren't you so high and mighty. Try reading the entire thread. You're obviously more interested in taking pot shots at people, so I'll leave you to your childish devices.
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06-22-2010, 03:05 AM
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#446
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
There has never been a purely Marxist country. Then again, there has never been a purely capitalistic country either.
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Perhaps not, but they've always been closer to Adam Smith than Marx, regardless of whether that is right. Saying that Sweden is Marxist because it is a mixed economy is ridiculous, we both know that both socialism and communism predate Marx and that there have been other proponents of socialism, communism and mixed economies since. Marxism is a very organized and specific philosophy, it is not just an umbrella term for high taxes.
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06-22-2010, 03:07 AM
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#447
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadowagony
Oh, aren't you so high and mighty. Try reading the entire thread. You're obviously more interested in taking pot shots at people, so I'll leave you to your childish devices.
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You've got Google, why don't you stop complaining that people aren't taking you seriously and learn something before you talk about it? It's not difficult.
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06-22-2010, 06:25 AM
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#448
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowagony
Oh, aren't you so high and mighty. Try reading the entire thread. You're obviously more interested in taking pot shots at people, so I'll leave you to your childish devices.
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It's too big. You obviously read a post that specifically said 'corruption'
Please point it out to me, because that person is fucking stupid. Out of all the things one can blame capitalism, corruption is not one of them.
I seriously need to rip that person to shreds, so help me out.
__________________
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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06-22-2010, 06:26 AM
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#449
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Perhaps not, but they've always been closer to Adam Smith than Marx
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And it's way closer to Ricardo and Keynes. Hell; put Ricardo in and you can take Smith completely out of Scandinavian economies.
You don't have to think in a Adam Smith/Karl Marx dichotomy all the time.
__________________
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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06-22-2010, 06:37 AM
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#450
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
And it's way closer to Ricardo and Keynes. Hell; put Ricardo in and you can take Smith completely out of Scandinavian economies.
You don't have to think in a Adam Smith/Karl Marx dichotomy all the time.
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That was my point. CptSternn is picking out an individual influence, Marx, who is further removed from Sweden's economic and political structure than others that influenced it, such as Keynes, and claiming that Sweden's system is based around him. I was mirroring Sternn's claim by choosing Adam Smith because there is only a tenuous link, Sweden is obviously not a free market in the same way as it is not Marxist. I wasn't saying that Sweden is directly styled after the Wealth of Nations, quite the opposite.
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