Why do fat people get so offended?

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

We should also start killing everyone over the age of 60, because they also tend to have a lot of health problems that will be a drain on the system.

Y'know who's also a drain on society? People with terminal diseases. They're just going to die anyway, so why don't we just kill them, too? It would save a lot of money.

You know who are also a drain on the system? People who don't pay attention to detail.

I was very clear in my post that obesity is something that can be remedied easily. Age and many illnesses can't. I also made the distinction between the perception of "fat", and being obese to the point of medically endangering yourself. There are big differences. Obesity doesn't need to exist. It can be "treated" by people getting off their fat asses and exercising, and implementing changes in diet. It's not the result of a genetic condition. It's because people don't want to put in the tiny bit of effort it takes to drop the chips and pick up their sneakers.


Also, as far as terminal cases go, I think that assisted suicide should be made not only legal but accessible. Have you ever seen someone with an advanced neurodegenerative condition, or end-stage cancer? It's fucking brutal. Allowing people in conditions like that to choose to end their own life quickly and painlessly is not only cost-effective, it's also humane. We shouldn't make some poor person who's rotting away from the inside out feel guilty about wanting to make the pain stop. And here's where subjective questions of religiosity vs. secular morality enter into the equation.

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by 6SixSick

Ol so it's like this you go on something stupid like the "pineapple diet".
You lose weight cause after a week or so of nothing but fucking pineapples you start to eat less reduce your calorie intake and therefore lose fat.....BUT then your body goes into starvation mode. Starvation mode is something our nomadic ancestors had to deal with before agriculture. The body says to itself "damn it looks like no food for a while i'd better hold onto every single calorie I next get in order to get myself going" through winter or whatever.

Then after a while of being in starvation mode you decide to treat yourself to some cake you then pile on the pounds because in addition to your body holding onto every single calorie you've also lowered your metabolism which is the resting rate at which your body burns calories.

You then convince yourself that dieting is bollocks and lose hope. You then see the "Marshmallow diet" oh yeah! and the cycle starts all over agian.

The best thing to do is eat a diet of food which actually is hard for your body to digest which means it has to expend calories to digest it such as protein, eat wholemeal foods such as breads then drink water which will make them expand in your stomach and make you feel full, and do some weights which will build muscle which themselves actually burn calories just by being there.

Also "graze" on healthy foods which will give your body a steady stream of healhty minerals, vitamins etc all day. You should never feel hungry although you should never feel too full

Right on. People who stuff themselves with junk food just end up hungrier anyway, because those foods have no real nutritive value. Their body keeps sending signals to the brain that it's short vitamins, protein, complex carbohydrates, etc. So they just keep eating the same shit that landed them in that situation. They pack on calories, but no real nutrition. The simple sugars they gorge on get turned into fat, because that's how the body works, but they're essentially starving themselves of proper fuel. Nasty cycle. Combine that with the fact that people who eat like that, or try miracle diets, generally don't exercise, and you've got a recipe for medical obesity.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoWouldBeDead

You know who are also a drain on the system? People who don't pay attention to detail.

I was very clear in my post that obesity is something that can be remedied easily. Age and many illnesses can't. I also made the distinction between the perception of "fat", and being obese to the point of medically endangering yourself. There are big differences. Obesity doesn't need to exist. It can be "treated" by people getting off their fat asses and exercising, and implementing changes in diet. It's not the result of a genetic condition. It's because people don't want to put in the tiny bit of effort it takes to drop the chips and pick up their sneakers.

Age is something that can be remedied easily too. Die young.

Alright, on a more serious note.

A more apt comparison would be smokers. Do you believe that cigarettes should be made illegal? Heavy smokers tend to have as much health problems as people who are morbidly obese. So, what do we do about smokers? Or do you just have a problem with the fat fatties fatting up your personal space, who should all just fuck off and be fat somewhere else in fat fattie fat-land?

I'm for universal health care as well, but I understand that in a system of universal health care, my money will go to people who make dumb decisions, like Ricky the drunk frat boy who blew his hand off playing with fireworks, just as much as it will go to more sympathetic cases, like Little Susie the Dickensian orphan with leukemia.

You can't opt for a universal health care system, than expect everyone's personal lives to be policed strictly so that your tax money isn't "wasted". The very nature of universal health care means that you don't get to pick and choose who your money goes to.

[6SixSick]

I think if you choose to smoke or be obese you should be put on a mandatory rehabilitation course, and if you choose to continue to willfully hurt yourself you should be made to sign a form to say that you agree to have universal health care not apply to you!

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Age is something that can be remedied easily too.

A more apt comparison would be smokers. Do you believe that cigarettes should be made illegal? Heavy smokers tend to have as much health problems as people who are morbidly obese. So, what do we do about smokers? Or do you just have a problem with the fat fatties fatting up your personal space, who should all just fuck off and be fat somewhere else in fat fattie fat-land?

Cigarettes should be outlawed, yes. People are too fucking stupid to look out for their own welfare, so, apparently, they need someone to do it for them

You can't opt for a universal health care system, than expect everyone's personal lives to be policed strictly so that your tax money isn't "wasted". The very nature of universal health care means that you don't get to pick and choose who your money goes to.

Actually, you can. Fatasses should pay more into the national healthcare fund, in anticipation of their own idiotic and predictable problems. So should smokers. Part of universal healthcare should be an overhaul of the system we use to determine healthy BMI, blood pressure, lifestyle, etc. Overall health and lifestyle should be reexamined, and then every citizen should be mandated to have a yearly physical. If you're found lacking, you pay more into the fund.

While six's idea of a waiver is tempting to back, I don't think it would work. It would create a disparity, where the wealthy would opt out, buy private insurance, and, as they always do, take the lion's share of medical resources for themselves.
Healthcare should not be a business. It should be both a right and a responsibility, and everyone should participate in the same system. Privatized healthcare and personal choice ain't working, so we need to change things. Part of that change is how we think as a nation, and the way we collectively think now is fucked up. Being "okay with who you are" is twisted into "I'm a lazy fuck who doesn't want to put the effort into maintaining a healthy body so I'll hide behind the rhetoric of personal choice". Self-confidence is one thing, but nobody should be alright with the idea of coronary artery disease, early onset arthritis, COPD, and all of the other shit that comes from a snack-gorging, chainsmoking, willfully sedentary lifestyle.

As for personal choice? Fuck it. People claim that their stupid behavior only affects them, but in this age it doesn't. Someone wants to be a fatass? Well, in the long run that DOES affect me, and everyone else. So fuck them. They should put on a pair of running shoes, and eat a god damned apple.

[Cat Stark]

Before I get mad, I should point out that some people that are considered "fat" can be bigger boned or they are in some other way genetically that way and can not help it. Or they might take medication that makes them gain weight. They are healthy people,but still overweight.
Also, some that are unlucky enough, have overweight parents that do not care what they eat or feed them unhealthy foods. What are they going to do? Go hungry?
Just because someone is "fat" it does not make it their fault all the time.
So, you are saying that even for those that are overweight, of no fault of their own, should pay more for your "national healthcare fund" just because someone says that they are unhealthy?
What about on the opposite extreme? What about people that are secretly anorexic or bulimic? Do you want your tax money to go to tracking them down to make them pay more?

[6SixSick]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoWouldBeDead

As for personal choice? Fuck it. People claim that their stupid behavior only affects them, but in this age it doesn't. Someone wants to be a fatass? Well, in the long run that DOES affect me, and everyone else. So fuck them. They should put on a pair of running shoes, and eat a god damned apple.

LMAO!! Awesome that gave me a good old chuckle.
We our own "universal health care system" Called the National Health Service (or NHS) here in the UK; it works by people paying taxes toward it. There is the option for private healthcare although it doesn't seem to hog resources from everybody else. People tend to have public health for general care and major illnesses and private care for things such as dentistry or dermatology so maybe it can work in a similar way in the United States.

At any rate I'll be following the evolution of healthcare in the US with interest.

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by Cat Stark

Before I get mad, I should point out that some people that are considered "fat" can be bigger boned or they are in some other way genetically that way and can not help it.

Big difference between the perception of being fat, and being medically obese. The first is subjective, and only sometimes coincides with reality. The other is objective, and will land you in a hospital bed. Also, claiming to be "big boned" is another time-honored copout of the obese. Sometimes people are just larger, true. But it doesn't matter how big your frame is, if you've got too much adipose tissue on you've done something wrong. Fat doesn't just magically appear.

Or they might take medication that makes them gain weight. They are healthy people,but still overweight.

Hence why I mentioned a medical assessment. That's where these kinds of variables should be taken into consideration.

Also, some that are unlucky enough, have overweight parents that do not care what they eat or feed them unhealthy foods. What are they going to do? Go hungry?

A prime example of how stupid decisions affect more people than just the idiot making them.

Just because someone is "fat" it does not make it their fault all the time.
So, you are saying that even for those that are overweight, of no fault of their own, should pay more for your "national healthcare fund" just because someone says that they are unhealthy?

If by "someone" you mean trained physicians whose job it is to alert people to their own medical problems, then yes. You're throwing around the idea that people get obese "through no fault of their own". That doesn't happen. The human body doesn't turn calories into large deposits of fat if it's being maintained properly. Fat is a storage system, a reserve of energy for the body to use at a later date. Everyone has some far, but if you're properly caring for your body you shouldn't be carrying a spare tire around your waist. I don't care how big your bones are.

What about on the opposite extreme? What about people that are secretly anorexic or bulimic? Do you want your tax money to go to tracking them down to make them pay more?

Yes. People who are damaging themselves through their own stupidity should pay more. Just because someone's skinny doesn't mean they can't be stupid.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoWouldBeDead

Cigarettes should be outlawed, yes. People are too fucking stupid to look out for their own welfare, so, apparently, they need someone to do it for them




Actually, you can. Fatasses should pay more into the national healthcare fund, in anticipation of their own idiotic and predictable problems. So should smokers. Part of universal healthcare should be an overhaul of the system we use to determine healthy BMI, blood pressure, lifestyle, etc. Overall health and lifestyle should be reexamined, and then every citizen should be mandated to have a yearly physical. If you're found lacking, you pay more into the fund.

While six's idea of a waiver is tempting to back, I don't think it would work. It would create a disparity, where the wealthy would opt out, buy private insurance, and, as they always do, take the lion's share of medical resources for themselves.
Healthcare should not be a business. It should be both a right and a responsibility, and everyone should participate in the same system. Privatized healthcare and personal choice ain't working, so we need to change things. Part of that change is how we think as a nation, and the way we collectively think now is fucked up. Being "okay with who you are" is twisted into "I'm a lazy fuck who doesn't want to put the effort into maintaining a healthy body so I'll hide behind the rhetoric of personal choice". Self-confidence is one thing, but nobody should be alright with the idea of coronary artery disease, early onset arthritis, COPD, and all of the other shit that comes from a snack-gorging, chainsmoking, willfully sedentary lifestyle.

As for personal choice? Fuck it. People claim that their stupid behavior only affects them, but in this age it doesn't. Someone wants to be a fatass? Well, in the long run that DOES affect me, and everyone else. So fuck them. They should put on a pair of running shoes, and eat a god damned apple.

Sorry. But you still want a system that benefits society to also benefit you personally. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Your last statement is ironic because you don't think people should warp other peoples lives to accommodate them, but yet you think everyone should warp their own lives to save you a couple dollars.

Also, you would sound far less biased and more informed on the issue if you didn't declare every obese person a fat fat fattie who needs to stop fatting around and fatting up your air with their fatness. Oh my god those fat fatties need to eat an apple and stop being so goddamn fat, those fatties because it's always that easy, and I used to be a disgusting fat fattie but I picked myself up by my fattie bootstraps and ate nothing but salads and went on 50 mile long He-Man jogs every day for breakfast so I would stop being a fattie, and by god all those other fatties can do it to. FAT!

Health care should be a right, and that right should go to everyone, even obese people and smokers, because they're still people. That's how public works programs work, they go to everyone, whether you think they're worth it or not.

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by 6SixSick

We our own "universal health care system" Called the National Health Service (or NHS) here in the UK; it works by people paying taxes toward it. There is the option for private healthcare although it doesn't seem to hog resources from everybody else. People tend to have public health for general care and major illnesses and private care for things such as dentistry or dermatology so maybe it can work in a similar way in the United States.

That's an interesting point. I wonder, is there more of a sense of social responsibility in the UK? Do people take the good of their community into account when they do things there? For the most part they don't in the U.S. People here are taught from a young age the value of "individualism", which apparently consists of fucking over your neighbor so you can have enough money to buy the same over-priced fashionable clothes as everyone else.

As for nationalized healthcare, I'm not sure how it would work here, but my guess is that privatized health insurance would pay physicians more than the public option. The best medical minds the U.S. has to offer would be on retainer for the wealthy. Along with the best physicians would go the best equipment, leaving the vast bulk of the populace with mediocre leavings. I could be wrong, but that's what I think wouldhappen.

[6SixSick]

Originally Posted by Cat Stark

Before I get mad, I should point out that some people that are considered "fat" can be bigger boned or they are in some other way genetically that way and can not help it. Or they might take medication that makes them gain weight. They are healthy people,but still overweight.
Also, some that are unlucky enough, have overweight parents that do not care what they eat or feed them unhealthy foods. What are they going to do? Go hungry?
Just because someone is "fat" it does not make it their fault all the time.
So, you are saying that even for those that are overweight, of no fault of their own, should pay more for your "national healthcare fund" just because someone says that they are unhealthy?
What about on the opposite extreme? What about people that are secretly anorexic or bulimic? Do you want your tax money to go to tracking them down to make them pay more?

I think if anyone were to take us seriously enough to consider implementing our ideas into some form of policy we'd take the fat cheque excuse the pun) and do a thorough job of it including of course exceptions for the genetic excuse.

Even though you can confuse being "over weight" with being obese. I technically am over weight as I have too high a BMI for someone my height. This however is because I work out and have a fair bit of muscle also the heart problems cause by being overweight through eating have to do with too much fat in the arteries while I understand putting on weight due to medication has something to do with water retention?


The overweight parents can be assessed and put on a mandatory healthy eating responsibility course. Or maybe have kids complete one at high school. You gotta get this stuff into their minds at a young age.

But really there's no point getting mad I'm just making up policy as I go along. The first step in any change is a debate and this is what we're having here


Peace

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Sorry. But you still want a system that benefits society to also benefit you personally. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Your last statement is ironic because you don't think people should warp other peoples lives to accommodate them, but yet you think everyone should warp their own lives to save you a couple dollars.

Or, maybe, just maybe, save themselves the pain and misery of being needlessly hospitalized. Or save the resources for people who have medical problems that they actually can't control. Maybe. And yes, I think that if you're going to chainsmoke and eat ding dongs all fucking day, somebody SHOULD come in and warp your life.

Also, you would sound far less biased and more informed on the issue if you didn't declare every obese person a fat fat fattie who needs to stop fatting around and fatting up your air with their fatness. Oh my god those fat fatties need to eat an apple and stop being so goddamn fat, those fatties because it's always that easy, and I used to be a disgusting fat fattie but I picked myself up by my fattie bootstraps and ate nothing but salads and went on 50 mile long He-Man jogs every day for breakfast so I would stop being a fattie, and by god all those other fatties can do it to. FAT!

You're a fatty, aren't you? Did I touch a nerve? Well, tough. Get up and exercise. Trust me, you'll thank me when you can see your feet again. Now go. You're fatting up the internet. Fatty.

Also, I was never fat. Next time you go off on a crying jag you might want to mention that I just "don't know how hard it is!" before you bury your face in a tub of Ben & Jerry's.

Health care should be a right, and that right should go to everyone, even obese people and smokers, because they're still people. That's how public works programs work, they go to everyone, whether you think they're worth it or not.

And you seem to think that just because something is a right means you can abuse it however you see fit. I also think that the right of healthcare should be a responsibility, meaning that everyone should work to maintain their health, and by doing so the health of the system, for the common welfare. Just because you're entitled to something doesn't mean you should push it to breaking point just because nobody is stopping you. You break it, you break it for everyone, not just yourself.

Are you still there, or were you called off by the Walmart special on Ho-Hos?

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by 6SixSick

Even though you can confuse being "over weight" with being obese. I technically am over weight as I have too high a BMI for someone my height. This however is because I work out and have a fair bit of muscle also the heart problems cause by being overweight through eating have to do with too much fat in the arteries while I understand putting on weight due to medication has something to do with water retention?

True on both counts. The current standard for BMI is far too simplistic, with no allowances being made for type of physique. And yes, most weight gain brought on by medication therapy is due to water retention. Very few, if any, actually cause accumulation of adipose tissue.

And yes, we should be given the money to implement our goals. I KNOW BEST, AND I WILL MAKE YOU ALL CARE ABOUT THE WELL-BEING OF YOUR COMMUNITY!

I WILL MAKE YOU CAAAAAAAARRRRRE! *racks rifle.*

[6SixSick]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoWouldBeDead

That's an interesting point. I wonder, is there more of a sense of social responsibility in the UK? Do people take the good of their community into account when they do things there? For the most part they don't in the U.S. People here are taught from a young age the value of "individualism", which apparently consists of fucking over your neighbor so you can have enough money to buy the same over-priced fashionable clothes as everyone else.

As for nationalized healthcare, I'm not sure how it would work here, but my guess is that privatized health insurance would pay physicians more than the public option. The best medical minds the U.S. has to offer would be on retainer for the wealthy. Along with the best physicians would go the best equipment, leaving the vast bulk of the populace with mediocre leavings. I could be wrong, but that's what I think wouldhappen.

Well I dunno. NHS doctors get paid A LOT in the UK you're looking at around $40,000 as a junior hospital trainee (what I guess you guys call scrubs?)
The basic starting salary for a specialist doctor (That is not a general practioner in a local surgery) is about $55,000 after a few years you're looking at between $70-$140,000 and consultants are looking at $140- $200,000 a year (based on my vague knowledge of exchange rates) plus the fact that the "public sector" tends to have more job security than the "private sector" really does mean that it is a very attractive job to stay in.

As far as a social conscious in the UK?.... it depends where you are. The big cities have less and the smaller cities more to be very general, but there is also a north south divide (at least in England) where people in the north tend to be friendlier but less properous and southern people moodier but wealthier. But then it gets more complicated when it comes to class divide as well as working class people tend to support each other more than the aspiring middle classes and the upper classess band together to keep the lower classes in their place lol.

It's too complicated for me to put in one post really. The UK is 2 millenia+ old the language was only standardised in the time of Francis Bacon not long before the forming of America, and with the fact that there would be several kingdoms in England at any one time (at least in the first 1,000 years of its history) means that different parts of the country cemented its own identity related to its own personal piece of history.

Damn I got to waffling there. Well I've been to America so I'd say that yes as a whole there is more social conscious here. I apologise for the waffle

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoWouldBeDead

Or, maybe, just maybe, save themselves the pain and misery of being needlessly hospitalized. Or save the resources for people who have medical problems that they actually can't control. Maybe. And yes, I think that if you're going to chainsmoke and eat ding dongs all fucking day, somebody SHOULD come in and warp your life.

Ironic, you believe in assisted suicide. Yet you also don't think it's OK to slowly kill yourself with junk food.

Save the resources for people who have medical problems that they can't control? Oh, like Ricky the drunk frat boy who blew his own arm off while he was playing with fireworks?

You're a fatty, aren't you? Did I touch a nerve?

I'm going to get into a pissing match with someone over the internet about whether I'm fat or not. This will prove something, and he is definitely not trying to distract me from the argument at hand with his petty, ad hominem attacks.

At least, that's what I would be saying if I was dumb enough to actually get into that discussion.

And you seem to think that just because something is a right means you can abuse it however you see fit. I also think that the right of healthcare should be a responsibility, meaning that everyone should work to maintain their health, and by doing so the health of the system, for the common welfare. Just because you're entitled to something doesn't mean you should push it to breaking point just because nobody is stopping you. You break it, you break it for everyone, not just yourself.

What I believe is that if you have a social program, you will always have people who are going to abuse it, whether it's fat people, or smokers, or whathaveyou, so throwing on extra taxes for those people to save yourself a couple dollars is just deluding yourself into thinking you've found the perfect system.

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Ironic, you believe in assisted suicide. Yet you also don't think it's OK to slowly kill yourself with junk food.

You can't see the difference between someone chomping down burgers, and someone with pancreatic cancer wanting to die with some modicum of control and dignity? Really?

Save the resources for people who have medical problems that they can't control? Oh, like Ricky the drunk frat boy who blew his own arm off while he was playing with fireworks?

Audit the fuck out of him after you put his fingers back on. Look into what he was doing, why he was doing it, and adjust his payments accordingly.

I'm going to get into a pissing match with someone over the internet about whether I'm fat or not. This will prove something, and he is definitely not trying to distract me from the argument at hand with his petty, ad hominem attacks.

Ad hominem attacks, like accusing me of hating fat fatties for fatting up my nice lean air? Like that?

Also, you didn't answer my question.

What I believe is that if you have a social program, you will always have people who are going to abuse it, whether it's fat people, or smokers, or whathaveyou, so throwing on extra taxes for those people to save yourself a couple dollars is just deluding yourself into thinking you've found the perfect system.

It has nothing to do with saving myself a few hypothetical dollars. It has to do with keeping the system funded. People shouldn't abuse the fuck out of their bodies, get sick, go to the hospital and demand a fix NOW, just so they can go back out and live the same way that put them in the hospital to begin with. That'show the system would run out of money. Responsibility and social consciousness will help keep things running, not a sense of entitlement and pound cake.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoWouldBeDead

You can't see the difference between someone chomping down burgers, and someone with pancreatic cancer wanting to die with some modicum of control and dignity? Really?

Hell, if those people enjoy chomping down those burgers at the expense of their life, I say go the fuck ahead. I don't care.

Audit the fuck out of him after you put his fingers back on. Look into what he was doing, why he was doing it, and adjust his payments accordingly.

So you're going to save money and not break the back of the system by hiring people to investigate the back story behind everybody that comes limping through the emergency room door?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Also, let's say that this person's accident was the result of sex play gone foul. Do we audit him? It's his fault for having a dangerous fetish. Is it right for us to pry into that person's private life like that?

Ad hominem attacks, like accusing me of hating fat fatties for fatting up my nice lean air? Like that?

Also, you didn't answer my question.

1) When you go around making arguments that consist of "fatties just need to shove an apple down their gob" that makes you look like a biased douche bag.

2) OOOOOOOOO DID I STRIKE A NERVE? PERCHANCE YOU DO HATE FAT FATTIES FOR FATTING UP YOUR NICE LEAN AIR? NEXT TIME YOU GO ON A CRYING JAG....

3) I don't feel the need to answer your question, because this is over the internet, I don't know you and I have no objective way to prove to you if I'm fat or not (I could be lying after all). Thus, it's a pointless discussion.

It has nothing to do with saving myself a few hypothetical dollars. It has to do with keeping the system funded. People shouldn't abuse the fuck out of their bodies, get sick, go to the hospital and demand a fix NOW, just so they can go back out and live the same way that put them in the hospital to begin with. That'show the system would run out of money. Responsibility and social consciousness will help keep things running, not a sense of entitlement and pound cake.

So you're going to use a behaviorist model of altering social thought by using the system to punish those who have behaviors that are undesirable. Awesome. Because that's working so well with the drug war.

Ok, the drug war is a more apt comparison to banning cigarettes. But back to fat people, I do have to wonder if being morbidly obese would be such a drain on the system? Considering that I would think people who were morbidly obese and refused to change their life style would end up dying younger than your average person.

Overall, I still think this comes down to people deluding themselves into thinking they've found the perfect system.

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Hell, if those people enjoy chomping down those burgers at the expense of their life, I say go the fuck ahead. I don't care.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

So you're going to save money and not break the back of the system by hiring people to investigate the back story behind everybody that comes limping through the emergency room door?

Hire people to investiage fraud and negligence? Yes, I'd say that's a good plan. Actually, I think the government is trying that right now, in order to save money on medicare and medicaid. The amount of money potentially saved the system by cracking down on such cases far outweighs the expenditure of paying the investigators. Not to mention the minor, but still appreciable, side bonus of creating jobs.

Also, let's say that this person's accident was the result of sex play gone foul. Do we audit him? It's his fault for having a dangerous fetish. Is it right for us to pry into that person's private life like that?

Haven't given kinky sex much thought, but, honestly, if you injure yourself while doing it to the point of needing medical attention, you shouldn't be doing it. Maybe stretch first, get a bit of outside-the-gimp-mask exercise.

As for forcing them to reveal the means by which they were injured? Yes. If the person asking for help at a hospital wants proper treatment, they need to supply details. It doesn't matter if it reveals stupidity or embarrassing behavior. Not to mention the fact that most doctors and nurses are so desensitized by their jobs that they don't give a fuck about your icky personal habits. I only say "icky" because you imply that kinky sexy is an embarrassment. It's much more common than you think.

1) When you go around making arguments that consist of "fatties just need to shove an apple down their gob" that makes you look like a biased douche bag.

2) OOOOOOOOO DID I STRIKE A NERVE? PERCHANCE YOU DO HATE FAT FATTIES FOR FATTING UP YOUR NICE LEAN AIR? NEXT TIME YOU GO ON A CRYING JAG....

3) I don't feel the need to answer your question, because this is over the internet, I don't know you and I have no objective way to prove to you if I'm fat or not (I could be lying after all). Thus, it's a pointless discussion.

Yeah, you're a fatty. Enjoy your CAD.

So you're going to use a behaviorist model of altering social thought by using the system to punish those who have behaviors that are undesirable. Awesome. Because that's working so well with the drug war.

There's a difference between punishment and pragmatism. Nobody's punishing anyone. If you want to do stupid things, however, you should have to pay the price. Why should a healthy and health-conscious individual pay the same flat price for healthcare as an idiot we KNOW will end up costing the system five times (if not more) as much? You're conflating punishment with fair payment. Your comparison doesn't work. It's not like you're allowed to pay the heroin tax and then shoot up. Well, if you're rich you can get away with it, but that's not how it's SUPPOSED to be. Pay your fat tax, fatty, and then go be a fatass. But when you're crying in pain on a gurney because your arteries are cinched off by plaque don't say you weren't warned.

But back to fat people, I do have to wonder if being morbidly obese would be such a drain on the system? Considering that I would think people who were morbidly obese and refused to change their life style would end up dying younger than your average person.

You're a fucking idiot. You really are. Look at the hospital bill incurred by an obese person after a heart attack. Project that down the line for all of the subsequent predictable problems, along with any additional hospitalization for related comorbidities, and the cost is huge. A person who lives long and healthy and is only occasionally hospitalized for minor problems or routine diagnostics costs nowhere near as much.

Granted, the costs are artifically jacked up by drug and medical supply companies who hold monopolies on certain pieces of equipment and medications, but if you adjust the costs based on a hypothetical situation where the equipment and meds are made reasonably priced the costs are still far higher for the fatty mcfatfat.

Overall, I still think this comes down to people deluding themselves into thinking they've found the perfect system.

Fucking copout. "It won't be perfect, so don't even try". Yeah, because things will really get better if nobody tries to improve them.

[Pineapple_Juice]

Originally Posted by TopHaggardDoll

What is wrong with people!? Why is fat so bad!?

Fat is bad because it's unhealthy to be overweight. It doesn't have anything to do with aesthetics, because there's nothing wrong with feeling attractive however you look. Too skinny is also bad because it's unhealthy. Nothing to do with looks.

[Pineapple_Juice]

Oops, sorry. That post is in no way helpful to the conversation. I only read the first page.

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice

Oops, sorry. That post is in no way helpful to the conversation. I only read the first page.

No, it's pertinent in that it's on-topic and sensible. As you say, it's got nothing to do with aesthetics. Aesthetics are totally subjective. Physical condition isn't.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by TheManWhoWouldBeDead

You're a fucking idiot. You really are.

You are a tremendous douchebag, and, thus far, I don't really like you.

However, I'm going to swallow my pride and admit that at this point you've debated me to a standstill. I'm still not sure if you're right, your idea still seems a bit too perfect and your rhetoric too biased, but I'm going to reevaluate my opinion and look at more issues related to health care etc. However, at this point, I may just be wrong.

Judging by your rhetoric, you're probably going to take this admission and use it to be a self-righteous dickbag, and you'll probably follow that up with an oh-so-clever comment telling me to put down the bag of Twinkies and go shed those pounds.

I don't like you, but at this point you may be right, and I'd rather you be an asshole about it than continue to argue with someone who obviously understands this issue more than I do.

I still don't give a fuck if someone wants to eat McDonald's for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and slowly kill themselves until the day they die. If they enjoy it, all the more power to them. However, would taxing them more for such behavior (in a system where there is universal health care) be efficient and right? You've got me leaning towards yes, and showed me I really don't know shit about this issue.

In such a system, it seems, as long as they pay their extra due, I have no problem with them being fat.

[Pineapple_Juice]

Twinkies are immensely disgusting. Chips/crisps are my downfall.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice

Twinkies are immensely disgusting. Chips/crisps are my downfall.

I reread my post, and than I wondered if Twinkies even come in bags.

I've never even had a Twinkie, but everyone talks about them. What do they taste like? I've heard everything from "meh" to "LIKE SATAN'S SUGARY ASSCRACK!"

[6SixSick]

Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice

Twinkies are immensely disgusting. Chips/crisps are my downfall.

What's a "twinkie"?