Are Post-modern (white) Goths conformist?

[Saya]

Born This Way debuted at #14 on the Billboard charts. Seems acceptable enough.

I am a daughter of a single mother who struggled to make ends meet, I lived in poverty since my parents divorced when I was 11, I live in what is considered here to be a ghetto, and there are times where I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to eat or get to school because I'm broke and no one can help me. Yes, I still benefit from white privilege. If I were in the same situation but Native, people would look at me and say "look at the lazy, dirty squaw taking advantage of government handouts." Because I'm white, I'm a hard working girl getting the education she needs to get ahead. I'm not viewed with suspicion or hatred on a daily basis. People will listen to me, a born and bred Canadian before they talk to someone of an ethnic minority, since the opinions of immigrants don't matter. Even on issues of race I feel that people will listen to me first because oh, the minorities are just reacting out of emotion, not logic. They have a victim complex.

[Cruven]

This conversation seems to consist of:
A: I'm racist, and trying to hide it by saying white folk aren't privileged because everyone's equal!

B:I'm racist, and trying to hide it by letting everyone know I'm on the colored folks' side when I say white folk are privileged!

Or is it just me?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Cruven

This conversation seems to consist of:
A: I'm racist, and trying to hide it by saying white folk aren't privileged because everyone's equal!

B:I'm racist, and trying to hide it by letting everyone know I'm on the colored folks' side when I say white folk are privileged!

Or is it just me?

Are you trying to say all white people are racist?

You racist.

[Cruven]

Not so much all white people are racist as all people are racist. The conversation seemed to consist mainly of whites, so I ran with it. And I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally, etc.

[Murder.Of.Crows]

I highly doubt that everyone is racist. That seems more of a way to say, "well everyone else is doing it so it aint so bad." As it is, I have no prejudice toward race or type of people. So thus, i am not racist.

[Cruven]

But Murder, all the other kids are getting bars implanted between their ass cheeks so it whistles when they fart, why can't I?!?!

[Catch]

Originally Posted by Cruven

Not so much all white people are racist as all people are racist. The conversation seemed to consist mainly of whites, so I ran with it. And I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally, etc.

I agree. It would help if people got some humility and realized they are sometimes guilty of the behavior they accuse everyone else of having. If they did, they could modify rude comments and observations to a minimum that was not so icky and likely to cause real unrest between people.

[Murder.Of.Crows]

Originally Posted by Cruven

But Murder, all the other kids are getting bars implanted between their ass cheeks so it whistles when they fart, why can't I?!?!

I have no idea what you were trying to say.

[Solumina]

Pretty much everybody is a little bit racist so lets accept that and try to change the shit that really hurts people.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by Solumina

Pretty much everybody is a little bit racist so lets accept that and try to change the shit that really hurts people.

Because racism doesn't hurt people?

[Murder.Of.Crows]

I'm not racist though, i have no ounce of prejudice unwarranted. Those i hate are not for ethnic association, but personal actions. So the idea that everyone is racist i find flawed. To me, saying that just gives you the right that it is okay and that idea isn't going to change anything.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Because racism doesn't hurt people?

Clearly based on my past posts I think that it does, I think that things like thinking black people like watermelon and that while people can't dance don't really hurt, in other words being a little bit racist and being discriminatory aren't the same things, we need to focus on the latter. That and arguing about whether or not people are racist won't help anyone. Talking about the underlying causes of racism and how to treat them can actually make a difference.

[Saya]

But stereotyping people lends to discrimination, and it doesn't make stereotyping okay. Part of the reason we become racist and discriminate is because we categorize people into groups and hold individuals accountable for these arbitrarily constructed groups. Thinking Jews are cheap might not be discriminatory off the bat, but its not a far step from there to assuming that a Jew is going to be cheap with you, so lets not deal with them. A big one I see at school is the assumption that Asians keep to themselves, but what ends up happening is that white people won't talk to them just because they assume Asians don't want to talk to them.

I was on the bus the other day and a guy I know came on with a Taiwanese girl, and they sat in front of me. The first thing he said to me was "I hang out with Asians now!" o.O Its not discriminatory in that its not like he hates them, but Jesus Christ, they aren't pokemon to collect.

I do think that its something most people do, to try and pigeonhole other people, but we need to be on our guard about that thinking. When Vin said stupid racist shit, I don't think she was out burning crosses on anyone's lawns but it still didn't make what she said okay or totally harmless.

[Catch]

Whatever, I think race related threads are here to stay.

I'm not particularly "racist," yet find myself having biased opinions of people based on their appearance, which is illogical. It has nothing to do with race, but I imagine that's what racism is like. I think everyone has some bias and the only way to deal with it is figure out what it is and then treat people fairly. Of course, fairly has a downside, because people are not always nice to each other. In fact, that is one of the barrier more empathy when approached by someone who seems threatening and more defense when approached by someone who seems harmless.

There are all kinds of bias. Sometimes it seems nice but then it isn't really. I still think Asians in the USA are heavily discriminated against. After the Korean and Vietnam War people just got silent and the rule of thumb is to avoid Asians because they might be communists. At least the Russians got a chance to talk about this; meanwhile, I keep figuring out slights people made about Asians so I would stay away from them.

One involved how I should notice how Asians put all the pieces together and work as a group. Americans work on their own project. That's the American way.

It is aweful. Luckily, I actually talk to Asians. The weird part of it all is Koreans and Vietnam people were on the Democratic (green) side fighting against communism with the US and moved because their families would probably be hunted by the government or knew it was the only way to escape communism. Then there are other people who lived here longer who don't want anything to do with Asian heritage. It is sad.

So I guess keeping everything up is okay. Freedom of Speech is important for a lot of reasons; otherwise, probably looking at segregation again or maybe just I don't know. Anyway, there were more than just white people involved in the Marxist movement. It is derespectful to whites and derespectful to other cultures not being represented in history.

[Spookycreep]

I think racism is just a negative aspect of human natrue. I've often thought that if blacks were in the majority then whites would be discriminated against. As a matter of fact, I know this to be true. I graduated from a predominately black high school in Washington D.C.. One year we had a vote to change our school colors. You know what colors won? The African Nationalism colors, the green, yellow, red and black ( or whatever they are. Personally I don't give a fuck.) I thought, however that this was wrong at the time and I still do but what can you say? Majority rules whether it's right or wrong.
I think the majority of any race are sheep. They need group identity or they wouldn't know if they were coming or going. I'ts so much easier to go along with the flow than to figure shit out for yourself and Goddess forbid if you should ever have to stand alone.
I think this is why the nonconformist upset the conformist so much, if everyone isn't like them then it makes them aware of options they'd just as soon not have. Easier to believe and follow than to think.

[Alan]

Wow, a black dude with a white dude's understanding of racism.

It's so ironic that you went and cried RACISM at us.

[MissCheyenne]

Alan, explain to me what you mean by a 'white dudes understanding of racism'. I'm curious as to exactly what you mean by that.

[Alan]

His example of 'discrimination against white people' is choosing colors associated with the pan-African movement, and he thinks that discrimination and majority are nothing but a matter of mere numerical superiority instead of dominance and power.
I've said this before in this site: you know you haven't experienced racism if you think racism is an interpersonal issue instead of an institutional (and sociological) issue.

[MissCheyenne]

Ok, that's fair enough. I wasn't trying to be a dick about it, I was genuinely curious about what you meant exactly

[$haDe]

Originally Posted by Saya

Born This Way debuted at #14 on the Billboard charts. Seems acceptable enough.

As I lived and breathed, Gaga has arrived here ..without being a metaphorical term in an insult.

[Catch]

Originally Posted by Alan

His example of 'discrimination against white people' is choosing colors associated with the pan-African movement, and he thinks that discrimination and majority are nothing but a matter of mere numerical superiority instead of dominance and power.
I've said this before in this site: you know you haven't experienced racism if you think racism is an interpersonal issue instead of an institutional (and sociological) issue.

I think you are confusing racism with who would win in a fight. Racism is discrimination based on appearance. It does not matter who was successful at harming the other person.

Related article
http://philosology.blogspot.com/2011...intuition.html

[Alan]

Shut the fuck up, Catch.

[sgtslaughter]

There is a lot of finger pointing going on here.

The real problem: The privilege of the white race.

How do you solve that and if it were solved, you you even really notice the difference?

Saya acts like she has a point by what people think of her because she's white, but does she know this to be objectively true?

Saya, have you done a study on this or do you just assume this because it's what white and black people expect?

Guys. What's the end game here? Restitution? A period of white slavery? A kind of organic shut-the-hell up about it all and still blame white people until the argument is no longer relevant?

What is the solution to racism?

[Saya]

Absolutely. Every single person who has ever laid eyes on me gets a survey in the mail. But only the white and black people, not the Natives, Asians, Arabs and Persians. I only know what white and black people expect.

[Spookycreep]

Originally Posted by Alan

Wow, a black dude with a white dude's understanding of racism.

It's so ironic that you went and cried RACISM at us.

You keep using V.'s words in your post. Racism!