Rant Thread II

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Versus

That makes more sense. I know you take your secret identity seriously.

Well it is really difficult being wonderwoman. I mean everyone wants me to get out my golden lasso and whip them into shape and half the guys want to wear my sexy little outfit, particularly the wristbands so they can deflect bullets.

Saya knows my secret identity but I'm not lending her the invisible jet again. She had a vulcan party in it last time... Those vulcans are party animals!

Oh and can I just say that its a PITA when I start twirling at parties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5V1C...eature=related

[Solumina]

The apartment complex that we really want to move into will have a one bedroom unit coming available June 11th so Jake was going to stop by our leasing office and see about staying for an extra month as our lease is up near the end of May. Yeah he didn’t do that. He got a little distracted by video games and forgot that the office closes at 5:30. I’m not happy about this. It isn’t too big of a problem as we can stop by on our way up to visit my mom tomorrow, but I’m still very much annoyed.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I don't get how people get hung up about gender identity. If you feel like being a boy, be one. If the next day you're a lady, be one. If you're a man's man who wears lipstick or a superfemme with a fake cock in her pants, be that.

Seriously, how is it a problem?

Because its not that I can't pick which I want to be. I'm reading through Foucault and Judith Butler pertaining to the formation of identity, and grappling with the fact that there is not only no gender binary, but gender isn't even a tangible, real thing.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Saya

Because its not that I can't pick which I want to be. I'm reading through Foucault and Judith Butler pertaining to the formation of identity, and grappling with the fact that there is not only no gender binary, but gender isn't even a tangible, real thing.

Eh. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think I disagree with that. For some people, it's not a real thing, and for some it is. I mean, you can say it's just a collection of likely mannerisms, preferences, talents, etc, and that's certainly a real thing. Either way, to me, it isn't too heavy.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Eh. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think I disagree with that. For some people, it's not a real thing, and for some it is. I mean, you can say it's just a collection of likely mannerisms, preferences, talents, etc, and that's certainly a real thing. Either way, to me, it isn't too heavy.

Butler is pretty much saying that gender isn't something you are, its something you do, and what Foucault says is that its constructed through discourse. This I agree with, because society defines what is "female" and what is "male", or rather, masculine and feminine, on pretty arbitrary guidelines. A man certainly can wear high heels and dresses and feel like a man's man, and a woman can certainly stuff her pants and feel like a woman. Its only real in that we accept it as real. Which jives with how I feel about myself, I only identify as a woman in how others see me, and as Butler points out, by creating gender trouble we can change discourse to be far more accepting of sexualities that fall outside of heteronormative discourse.

But I do agree that to many people, it feels really real and important to them, and what I'm having trouble with is how do I accept queer theory (Butler's stance) without being dismissive of their experiences, specifically when its comes to transsexuality? How do I bring this discourse to my activist work, and how do I create gender trouble without burning bridges with the second wave feminists I work with?

This is why I need someone to organize my thoughts for me.

[Solumina]

I think it helps to see gender as a social construct but also as something that people can still find meaningful. It also helps when creating gender trouble to not really make it about getting rid of the ideas of masculine and feminine but simply to get people to allow things outside of those two categories. I have personally found it very helpful to mention that there are societies that have different genders, it usually is a pretty good mind-fuck but once you give people a few examples light bulbs tend to go on (although some people will just go "that's fucking weird").

[Murder.Of.Crows]

9 out of 10 times, I get "that's fucking weird" comments.

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Murder.Of.Crows

9 out of 10 times, I get "that's fucking weird" comments.

My first husband used to say i was fucking weird all the time - that was his term of endearment... but then everyone used to say I was fucking weird, and yet I was the most normal person I knew at the time.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Solumina

I think it helps to see gender as a social construct but also as something that people can still find meaningful. It also helps when creating gender trouble to not really make it about getting rid of the ideas of masculine and feminine but simply to get people to allow things outside of those two categories. I have personally found it very helpful to mention that there are societies that have different genders, it usually is a pretty good mind-fuck but once you give people a few examples light bulbs tend to go on (although some people will just go "that's fucking weird").

I don't usually find that a great argument, as even in societies with a third gender, gender roles can still be extremely strict. And the problem with feminine/masculine is that it has characteristics that obviously favour the masculine, i.e masculine is strong, feminine is passive. It slays me when people say "its like Yin Yang! They're different but equal!" when in Yin Yang theory, Yin represents the feminine and death while Yang represents masculinity and birth. Incongruity detected!

Speaking of identity, this week my school's paper has an LGBTQ theme. Now, the paper is usually a piece of crap, but because of that and someone mentioned that there was another reply to the burka article that pissed me off last week, so I picked it up. And it was...decent.

Except when I got to the editorial. Apparently LGBTQ create homophobia by being divisive, by declaring your sexuality you draw a line in the sand. If we keep this up, in the future jobs will require you to be a certain sexuality, and at birth it will be set on your birth certificate because of chromosomal testing. Its LGBTQ's fault! Why can't they just love dick or pussy and shut up about it?

At least thats what I could glean, it was so poorly written I'm pretty sure he wrote it just to meet a word count. And this is by the paper's senior reporter, by the way.

SCC and Saya... you two jokers need to go into separate corners.

Saya, you seem to be trying your very damndest to overcomplicate your gender identity and you CERTAINLY don't need SCC spewing his fairytale religio-babble into your ear.

SCC, stop being fucking silly. Just cause you're studying theology doesn't mean you're learning the fucking magic of the mages, you're just studying Christianity and beliefs and how stupid fucks try their best to either reconcile stupid spiritual assumptions in the face of opposing evidence that there IS NO GOD. Stop being the spiritual equivalent of a furry. It's retarded. Best solution for your cognitive dissonance is that neither religion is remotely true or real and paganism even moreso. You're not pagan out of some actual spiritual conviction, you're pagan out of a reaction to a Christian upbringing/society. Stop. Doing. That.

Seriously, you guys and your neurosis is what makes it so god damned hard to like you that I have to concede to either likeHating you or Lovedisliking you. Or just Lovehating you.

Mainly because I see potential in you guys. I actually think you dudes are more interesting than the stupid shit you preoccupy your minds with and it's frustrating. I suppose I have my own brand of cognitive dissonance with you fuckers. Perhaps I should just write you guys off as failfags and be done with it. Would that be a fair dismissal?

Originally Posted by Saya

I don't usually find that a great argument, as even in societies with a third gender, gender roles can still be extremely strict. And the problem with feminine/masculine is that it has characteristics that obviously favour the masculine, i.e masculine is strong, feminine is passive. It slays me when people say "its like Yin Yang! They're different but equal!" when in Yin Yang theory, Yin represents the feminine and death while Yang represents masculinity and birth. Incongruity detected!

This argument sounds SO FUCKING FAMILIAR! This is the exact same arguments and that Desp and I have used against religion, yet when it comes to religion, you sound like Solumnia. You asshole.

Speaking of identity, this week my school's paper has an LGBTQ theme. Now, the paper is usually a piece of crap, but because of that and someone mentioned that there was another reply to the burka article that pissed me off last week, so I picked it up. And it was...decent.

Except when I got to the editorial. Apparently LGBTQ create homophobia by being divisive, by declaring your sexuality you draw a line in the sand. If we keep this up, in the future jobs will require you to be a certain sexuality, and at birth it will be set on your birth certificate because of chromosomal testing. Its LGBTQ's fault! Why can't they just love dick or pussy and shut up about it?

At least thats what I could glean, it was so poorly written I'm pretty sure he wrote it just to meet a word count. And this is by the paper's senior reporter, by the way.

Terrible paper is terrible.

[Saya]

I'm sorry sir, who are you? Your opinion matters how?

[Versus]

So I just got home from a very bad day at work, and guess fucking what?

I let a co-worker use my shower this morning and I just came home to a clogged toilet from the huge dump he took in it after I left for work.

Thanks, Satan.

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

Double K... I wonder who that would be.

Also, you expressed Atheism as a universal truth and factual. Dislike. Kontan you're an ass-munching ****** train.

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

Originally Posted by Versus

So I just got home from a very bad day at work, and guess fucking what?

I let a co-worker use my shower this morning and I just came home to a clogged toilet from the huge dump he took in it after I left for work.

Thanks, Satan.

Ew.

Shoot him?

[Saya]

End him. spoooooky.

Originally Posted by Sir Canvas Corpsey

Double K... I wonder who that would be.

Also, you expressed Atheism as a universal truth and factual. Dislike. Kontan you're an ass-munching ****** train.

Holy shit, YOU'RE RIGHT, SCC! It doesn't matter what's true, it matters about what makes us feel good that we can also project to be true. I mean, SURELY it's either Christianity, Paganism, or some other kind of supernatural assumption. I must be god damned insane to EVER recommend that you should consider atheism as the most reasonable and logical conclusion to the super natural. No, no. The wind has to have a fucking SPIRIT to it because that matters to YOU and because it matters to you EVERYONE must respect your spiritual opinion despite the fact that it's only applicable to your own madness and represents no one else but yourself. You selfish fuck.

And last I checked you were totally ready to polish off my man sausage five minutes ago. But I actually bring up some very critical questions to your spiritual view and instead of realizing that I'm trying to help you, you take it as an attack on your person.

Originally Posted by Saya

I'm sorry sir, who are you? Your opinion matters how?

Oh you can't see the delicious irony in what you're saying to Solumnia and what I said to you about religion? It's the exact same reasoning and all of a sudden, because it pertains to how you feel about injecting things into sexual orifices, it all of a sudden matters in a very concrete way. Gender doesn't exist, but spirituality CERTAINLY does.

[Still Jack]

#winningWhitepeoplestink

[Saya]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Oh you can't see the delicious irony in what you're saying to Solumnia and what I said to you about religion? It's the exact same reasoning and all of a sudden, because it pertains to how you feel about injecting things into sexual orifices, it all of a sudden matters in a very concrete way. Gender doesn't exist, but spirituality CERTAINLY does.

Sir, calm down sir and I'll try to figure out what you're upset about. Now, is the modem plugged in?

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

And why is Atheism the most logical and reasonable conclusion? Come on, you self-righteously assert your superiority over me because you think I'm dumb for not seeing what you think is so obvious yet you seem to only provide your supposed intelligence as the basis for the factuality of Atheism. Yet without providing any reason you can hardly argue that you're any better than buck-toothed bible basher who sees a tap produce water and (not) wanks because they think it's a miracle.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

#winningWhitepeoplestink

Is it me, or is it fun to see what people say to get the 10 character minimum?

Originally Posted by Sir Canvas Corpsey

And why is Atheism the most logical and reasonable conclusion? Come on, you self-righteously assert your superiority over me because you think I'm dumb for not seeing what you think is so obvious yet you seem to only provide your supposed intelligence as the basis for the factuality of Atheism. Yet without providing any reason you can hardly argue that you're any better than buck-toothed bible basher who sees a tap produce water and (not) wanks because they think it's a miracle.

Simple, really. I can run experiments all day long testing the existence of a super natural force and every time, conclude that there isn't one. Also, the continuing evidence supporting a lack of a deity would lead someone to the more correct conclusion that there is no supernatural, yet instead, we have people who try to reconcile spirituality to fit more and more into the frame of a godless reality because it emotionally matters to people.

Also, the God of the Gaps argument is fallacious because just because we don't know something in nature doesn't mean it's reasonable to assume a supernatural force.

Tell me, SCC. why is it essential to your survival that what you assume to be true about the divine is actually true or not questioned? You are the one making positive claims about the supernatural, so the burden of proof is on you.

Have you ever watched any of Qualiasoup or Theramintree? They're VERY good at this stuff. Do yourself a favor and watch them if you haven't. I think you'll find that they are amazing.

Originally Posted by Saya

Sir, calm down sir and I'll try to figure out what you're upset about. Now, is the modem plugged in?

You can patronize me all you want, but I want you to acknowledge the irony.