Introduction

[Naunet]

Hey, everyone. I'm Naunet. I'm one of the new members to the site and am interested in breaking into the subculture and learning more about it.

In terms of hobbies, I'm into reading, writing, and photography. I'm currently a first year law student and am thinking of doing international law, copyright law, or disability law--or all three if I'm bold enough.

I'm also on the autism spectrum. In my case it's quite mild, and I do try and stick to being civil about things. Just keep in mind that on the internet I have a harder time telling when you're being sarcastic. So please do indicate when you are being sarcastic as a matter of nettiquette.

[Kasdeja]

Welcome, Naunet! I'm not being sarcastic when I say I hope you find what you're looking for...

Oh, and there's a little thing to fill out if you want to... It's just there to help the rest to get to know you a little better.

[Elystan]

What does "breaking into the subculture" mean to you?

[Naunet]

It means learning more and more about it and seeing whether or not it's where I want to be. I guess a better term would be "testing the waters".

[Grausamkeit]

To me it means stealing shit from the DJ booth...

[Naunet]

That was uncalled for, Graus!

[Elystan]

Do you ever think that maybe you use your aspergers as an excuse to prevent having to deal with the world on its own terms? It's possible to learn social skills intellectually, you know.

[Naunet]

First of all, I don't have Asperger's. I have autism. Yes, there is a difference. And no, it's not about excuses to prevent having to deal with the world on its terms. I do that plenty in the real world. How else do you think I got into law school without any supports?

[Elystan]

Originally Posted by Naunet

First of all, I don't have Asperger's. I have autism. Yes, there is a difference. And no, it's not about excuses to prevent having to deal with the world on its terms. I do that plenty in the real world. How else do you think I got into law school without any supports?

Well that's new information so I didn't think you got into law school at all until you told me just now.

Oh wait no it was there I just wasn't paying attention.

But the fact that you made a big deal out of it in your first post and then went on to display a certain, how shall I say, privileged attitude. Just something for you to think about.

[Naunet]

I don't see how I was displaying a privileged attitude, Elystan. Just because I'm trying to be civil on the internet doesn't mean that I have a privileged attitude.

[Elystan]

Originally Posted by Naunet

I don't see how I was displaying a privileged attitude, Elystan. Just because I'm trying to be civil on the internet doesn't mean that I have a privileged attitude.

Do you have no idea what I could possibly mean by it?

[Naunet]

I don't have time to fight about this right now.

[ceb]

Damn. Looks like I'm going to have to keep mental toilet paper on hand for all the shit flying around these forums.

Oh well, fuck it.

[Elystan]

I have all the time in the world to go over it calmly. Let me know when you're ready.

[Naunet]

Listen, Elystan. Even if you're referring to what Graus decided to say and my reaction to it, I still don't see how I'm acting like I'm privileged. Can I please get a straight answer?

[Elystan]

Originally Posted by Naunet

Listen, Elystan. Even if you're referring to what Graus decided to say and my reaction to it, I still don't see how I'm acting like I'm privileged. Can I please get a straight answer?

No I mean everything you've posted so far that I've read. You seem to think that you have a right to a certain treatment, rather than accepting that ultimately you're responsible for the way other people treat you

[Naunet]

I am not responsible for how others treat me. All I'm responsible for is the words that come out of my own mouth. I gave people civility, and in return I got nothing but rudeness.

[Elystan]

Originally Posted by Naunet

I am not responsible for how others treat me. All I'm responsible for is the words that come out of my own mouth. I gave people civility, and in return I got nothing but rudeness.

Yeah see, you're evading responsibility, as if how people respond to you has nothing to do with how you behave yourself.

If experience is anything to go by you won't take in a word of this and adjusting your behaviour in any way will be unthinkable, but years later you'll be forced to admit you were holding yourself back all this time.

[Naunet]

I don't have to deal with you anymore, Elystan. Goodbye.

[Elystan]

Hilarious.

[Naunet]

I have been trying to adjust my behavior, Elystan. But how can I do that if I'm not getting any clue how? If you've done any reading on what the autism spectrum even remotely looks like, that is my issue. And that was what I was asking for when I came out as autistic in the first place! I was asking for help learning the subculture! And what do I get for it? I get laughed at when I try to understand what the underlying logic is and can't. Just like all the other people who think I can't do much of anything useful.

[Kasdeja]

I do have to agree with one thing... Aspberger's and Autism are two completely different animals.
One of my best friends has Aspbergers, and as long as I've known him, he fails to recognize facial queues and acknowledge simple commands.

There are MANY people with Autism that are high-functioning. That's who you've been talking to, Ely.

I'm not putting you down in any way, Ely, just acknowledging the differences.

[Naunet]

Can I have a reality check, Kasdeja? Is there something wrong with expecting a certain amount of civility on the internet?

[Elystan]

Originally Posted by Naunet

I have been trying to adjust my behavior, Elystan. But how can I do that if I'm not getting any clue how? If you've done any reading on what the autism spectrum even remotely looks like, that is my issue. And that was what I was asking for when I came out as autistic in the first place! I was asking for help learning the subculture! And what do I get for it? I get laughed at when I try to understand what the underlying logic is and can't. Just like all the other people who think I can't do much of anything useful.

Okay, so your first tip is don't address me by name in every post. It can come across as patronising or confrontational.

It's good that you're responding to me though, and at least showing evidence of a willingness to learn. People like that and will respond positively to it (not all of them all of the time, but in general).

The fact is that talking about a 'subculture' to 'goths' is a very touchy area. There are an awful lot of negative stereotypes out there which they get very frustrated with, and the issue is complicated further by different peoples ideas of what a 'goth' is. These guys seem to be mostly like me in that they are fans of the somewhat obscure genre which is now called 'gothic rock' and it doesn't go much beyond that.

It can be complicated though, for instance I typically wear black clothes which marks me out visually as a 'goth' from a distance. An outsider would then proceed to make all sorts of assumptions about me on that basis and would be wrong about a lot of them, for instance that I think marilyn manson is cool or that all my friends are 'goths' - neither of these things is true. Not because you can't stereotype a goth, but because these are outsiders views.

To somebody who had a road map to 'alternative subcultures' for want of a better term, they would realise that not much could be deduced about my taste in music from the clothes that I wear, but if they knew I was into 'goth' as a genre of music they would quite rightly guess that my favourite bands were joy division, bauhaus and the sisters of mercy

But what about people who do listen to marilyn manson, are they not goths too? Depends who you ask, in the case of marilyn manson I don't know what you call it, but in terms of alternative 'subcultures' in general you'll have metalheads who listen to various kinds of metal (the black metal variety would be particularly easy to confuse with goths), cybergoths who will be listening to their stompy industrial stuff, and a myriad of other subdivisions. The word 'goth' applies both to the grand mess of anyone who dresses unusually and features a lot of black, and more specifically to a small number of bands from the late 70's and early 80's and the subculture which sprang therefrom. That subculture no longer exists because it was 30 years ago and they all grew up and got jobs but it provided plenty of inspiration and confusion for the media.

Finally, the truth is that 'breaking into the subculture' is probably not something you can do because it's not something anyone does. When I'm goth I do it privately and alone. Once a month there is a goth night near where I live where I can hear the music and dance in public, and this is really the closest thing to a subculture there is, but the truth is that it's a goth/industrial night with heavy emphasis on the industrial, and I usually only get to hear 2-3 songs from the canon of gothic rock and I'm nearly the only one dancing to them.

Goth isn't a secret society you can join. It's a statement of identity you can choose to make for yourself and by yourself but nobody is going to reward you for it. Just listen to the music you personally enjoy and wear the clothes you feel comfortable in. If you want to know how to make friends, that's a whole different essay for me to write.

[Kasdeja]

Originally Posted by Naunet

Can I have a reality check, Kasdeja? Is there something wrong with expecting a certain amount of civility on the internet?

Not at all! However, some people are targets for no reason and their function is to pick apart everything you say and then some.
But no, there should be a certain amount of civility on this forum.

Elystan's a good guy... He just seems to want to clarify a few things. Am I right, Ely?