Sex industry - Page 3

Alan · 10-01-2011, 02:51 PM

So you actually admit that you don't give a shit about the real sex industry because of the tiny minority which is much, MUCH less that 5% ?

Hey guys, let's go back to slavery! I hear some of the landowners actually treated their slaves like family and let them inside the house, so fuck those whiners that bitch about the overwhelming majority of that economic structure!

Versus · 10-01-2011, 02:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Elystan

It's not assumption

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Originally Posted by Elystan

I didn't know that. I do know what the local brothels charge and I know it's a lot less than a lot of the independent escorts.

It's all starting to make sense now.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 02:56 PM

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Originally Posted by Alan

You, on the other hand, you're saying that the current system is alright

No you're deluded (and your face is deluded)

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Originally Posted by Alan

because prostitution CAN be an informed choice, instead of fucking realizing that currently it RARELY IS and thus you should be doing something about it instead of saying that everything is all right just because your farfetched scenarios are possible in principle.

Forced prostitution is bad. This contradicts nothing. Prostitution as an informed choice? We don't want to discuss it because forced prostitution is bad. Also we have difficulty conceiving of it.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 02:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Versus

It's all starting to make sense now.

NB: I have never paid for sex nor do I have any plans to.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 02:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Alan

So you actually admit that you don't give a shit about the real sex industry because of the tiny minority which is much, MUCH less that 5% ?

I see no difficulty in the moral valuations, and thus nothing to discuss.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Hey guys, let's go back to slavery! I hear some of the landowners actually treated their slaves like family and let them inside the house, so fuck those whiners that bitch about the overwhelming majority of that economic structure!

This is just bizarre.

Versus · 10-01-2011, 03:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Elystan

I think gang bangs tend to mostly happen on camera. A lot of them by, you know, dedicated professionals.

I said gang ****. Not a gang bang on camera involving porn stars.

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Originally Posted by Elystan

NB: I have never paid for sex nor do I have any plans to.

I was implying that your assumption about what a prostitute in a brothel (and please don't continue to argue that is wasn't one) was based on what a brothel charged your friend. Sorry. I should have connected the dots for you, but honestly, my post wasn't really directed toward you.

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Originally Posted by Elystan

I see no difficulty in the moral valuations, and thus nothing to discuss.

There we have it. "Prostitution isn't wrong, so there is nothing wrong with it."

Get out of your fucking fantasy world.

Saya · 10-01-2011, 03:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Elystan

That one is cut and dry, I don't need to organise my thoughts on it.

I didn't know that. I do know what the local brothels charge (got drunk with a friend once and went in, he paid for me to spend a very awkward half hour being completely unaroused), and I know it's a lot less than a lot of the independent escorts.

I don't know what's going on in amsterdam but it doesn't sound pretty.

Do you live in a place where its legalized? In Nevada, prostitutes are captives of the brothels. The law and pimps (legally) dictates where they can be (they can't go to bars), whether they can own a car and when they can leave the brothel, and whether their children can live with them.

If it wasn't legal, chances are, they didn't get to keep much of that money, if any.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Versus

I was implying that your assumption about what a prostitute in a brothel (and please don't continue to argue that is wasn't one) was based on what a brothel charged your friend. Sorry. I should have connected the dots for you, but honestly, my post wasn't really directed toward you.

Yeah well I wanted to clear that up.

I think that having been in a brothel and seen how much they charge is reasonable grounds for thinking that's what brothels charge? I mean I didn't check the amsterdam study very carefully and I'm sure the statistics mean something but where I live it would be certainly possible for a girl to go and get a job there if she wanted to. And obviously some did.

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Originally Posted by Versus

There we have it. "Prostitution isn't wrong, so there is nothing wrong with it."

Now let's talk about the things that are RIGHT with prostitution.

I've heard it's exciting, and you don't have to worry about the guy falling in love with you.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

Do you live in a place where its legalized? In Nevada, prostitutes are captives of the brothels. The law and pimps (legally) dictates where they can be (they can't go to bars), whether they can own a car and when they can leave the brothel, and whether their children can live with them.

If it wasn't legal, chances are, they didn't get to keep much of that money, if any.

That sucks.

Where I live brothels are widely known and tolerated by local police forces, and women can advertise themselves quite overtly on websites that put little disclaimers about "activities engaged in by consenting adults" with a list of 'activities' that the escort 'likes' in a little sidebar (these are generally not hobbies or sports). The website allows charges for IM conversations, phone calls, access to picture galleries etc for an amount the client pays in credits, of which the website takes a cut, whereas actual meetings are settled in cash.

Versus · 10-01-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elystan

I think that having been in a brothel and seen how much they charge is reasonable grounds for thinking that's what brothels charge? I mean I didn't check the amsterdam study very carefully and I'm sure the statistics mean something but where I live it would be certainly possible for a girl to go and get a job there if she wanted to. And obviously some did.

Remember that thing that was said about 3 times in this thread about prostitutes not getting paid the same amount of money they make? It's not a reasonable assumption at all because you're trying to make an argument that isn't based on facts or logic in the face of a few people who have taken the time to research and think about their positions.

Also, I'm still waiting for you to explain why having money makes prostitution in it's current state okay.

Saya · 10-01-2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elystan

That sucks.

Where I live brothels are widely known and tolerated by local police forces, and women can advertise themselves quite overtly on websites that put little disclaimers about "activities engaged in by consenting adults" with a list of 'activities' that the escort 'likes' in a little sidebar (these are generally not hobbies or sports). The website allows charges for IM conversations, phone calls, access to picture galleries etc for an amount the client pays in credits, of which the website takes a cut, whereas actual meetings are settled in cash.

What's their cut?

In Vancouver, most street prostitutes are First Nations women. In brothels, Asians. They're advertised as "can't speak English," "fresh off the boat."

And I'd like to know what your city is so I could actually verify.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Versus

Remember that thing that was said about 3 times in this thread about prostitutes not getting paid the same amount of money they make? It's not a reasonable assumption at all because you're trying to make an argument that isn't based on facts or logic in the face of a few people who have taken the time to research and think about their positions.

Also, I'm still waiting for you to explain why having money makes prostitution in it's current state okay.

If she's giving most of the money to her pimp she's essentially a slave. This is an unambiguously bad thing, but there is nothing which prevents a woman from selling herself directly and keeping the earnings. Which is what I want to discuss.

I can't explain why the current state of prostitution is okay because it obviously isn't, as it's rife with coercion, trafficking etc. My question is about the remainder.

Alan · 10-01-2011, 03:41 PM

No it wasn't. You're just backpedaling now when you could actually fucking learn from people like Saya.
Now answer her what city you're from, because it's starting to look like you're blatantly lying just for fabricating anecdotal evidence, which is in itself a fallacy.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 03:45 PM

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Originally Posted by Saya

What's their cut?

In Vancouver, most street prostitutes are First Nations women. In brothels, Asians. They're advertised as "can't speak English," "fresh off the boat."

And I'd like to know what your city is so I could actually verify.

The website takes about 20% IIRC.

The girls in the brothel were mostly white with local accents, one was from jamaica. I haven't done a proper statistical analysis or anything on the internet but there seems to be plenty of 'local talent', as well as some obvious immigrants. Some seem to have written their own profiles, others not. There are dominatrices, girlfriend experiences, pornstar experiences, some with faces, some without, with varying prices and degrees of literacy (often corellated in fact).

If I had 200 posts I'd PM you.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 03:47 PM

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Originally Posted by Alan

No it wasn't. You're just backpedaling now when you could actually fucking learn from people like Saya.
Now answer her what city you're from, because it's starting to look like you're blatantly lying just for fabricating anecdotal evidence, which is in itself a fallacy.

I'm telling the truth and you'll have to take my word for it.

Saya · 10-01-2011, 03:47 PM

So, all you got is hearsay, as a friend of a guy who paid for sex. Wonderful.

What an idiot.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 03:48 PM

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Originally Posted by Alan

No it wasn't.

Oh yes it was

Saya · 10-01-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

No it wasn't. You're just backpedaling now when you could actually fucking learn from people like Saya.
Now answer her what city you're from, because it's starting to look like you're blatantly lying just for fabricating anecdotal evidence, which is in itself a fallacy.

Don't you know?! There's exists a mecca where prostitutes are safe from oppression and patriarchy and racism and violence and exploitation!

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 03:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Saya

Don't you know?! There's exists a mecca where prostitutes are safe from oppression and patriarchy and racism and violence and exploitation!

How about I link you to the website and you can do a little browsing yourself?

It might not be the majority of cases, but prostitution as an informed choice happens.

Alan · 10-01-2011, 03:53 PM

So did voluntary slavery.

Saya · 10-01-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elystan

How about I link you to the website and you can do a little browsing yourself?

It might not be the majority of cases, but prostitution as an informed choice happens.

For very few, very privileged women.

The average age of entry into prostitution is 14. If you enter that young, I doubt its a real informed choice if its all you've known.

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 04:06 PM

Would it make you guys feel better if I made a new thread titled "independent escorts"?

Even within that category there's confusion. One girl I knew used to take clients while her boyfriend was at work, give discounts and get off her face to do it. She wanted a car. The other thinks of herself as being very different, bought herself some new underwear and sex toys and saves most of her money for the pipe-dream of moving away. She says she nearly always enjoys herself and finds it empowering. "A girl's got to have some adventure in her life".

I'm supportive of feminism and skeptical of monogamy but unsure how to interpret the manifestations of the phenomenon in my own life. The theoretical framework of 'prostitution is human trafficking and slavery' doesn't help.

Saya · 10-01-2011, 04:20 PM

Prostitution is very often trafficking, we all acknowledge its not the only way, but for the majority it is.

I know a queer woman who's a prostitute, her clients are women and she's pretty damn safe. She's also white and has other means of income. Its not the same as the other 97% of prostitutes who said if they could get out of it they would.

Alan · 10-01-2011, 04:21 PM

THEORETICAL FRAMEWORK OF PROSTITUTION IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING AND SLAVERY?!!

Bitch, you're the one that is only talking about the coulda-woulda-shouldas instead of talking about the real-life situation of the sex industry

Elystan · 10-01-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

Prostitution is very often trafficking, we all acknowledge its not the only way, but for the majority it is.

I know a queer woman who's a prostitute, her clients are women and she's pretty damn safe. She's also white and has other means of income. Its not the same as the other 97% of prostitutes who said if they could get out of it they would.

"There is nothing inherently wrong with prostitution, but we take issue with the lack of rights prostitutes have, the discrimination they suffer and the way they are treated. Other than that, prostitution is totally cool."

Agree/disagree?