Zimmerman walks

[AshleyO]

............

[Jonathan]

I bet no small part of that is due to uninformed jury. Apparently they requested information about one of the charges (manslaughter) and were blown off by the judge. I'm sure that makes reaching an informed consensus easy.

It sucks that this sick power tripping individual was acquitted. Should have been a slam-dunk manslaughter conviction at the least.



The skittles and iced tea thing is still stupid.

[Judas]

Originally Posted by AshleyO

............

Something to say, or just stirring the pot?

[BourbonBoy]

What worries me is the precedent this sets. Now all anyone has to do is say, "I felt threatened" to justify the murder of anyone.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by BourbonBoy

What worries me is the precedent this sets. Now all anyone has to do is say, "I felt threatened" to justify the murder of anyone.

Except that's not supposed to be the bar. It isn't just "I felt threatened", or else anybody who says "hi" on an elevator can expect to get blown away.

It has to be a situation in which there's a reasonable expectation that the other person was about to kill him or do grievous bodily harm. Reasonable in that other people should be able to agree that it makes sense a person felt that way. Taking a punch or two or getting some scratches is harm but it is not grievous bodily harm.

That Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, especially in contradiction of the orders he was given during the phone call, made him the aggressor. You don't get to start a fight and then pull a gun when it looks like you're losing. He stalked and killed a kid and that's super terrible.

[Saya]

This is the same state that jailed a black woman for twenty years for firing a warning shot and harming no one. Its not open season on just anyone, just black people.

The jury requested general info about manslaughter, but they were told the definition in their instructions and they were told they had to be more specific with their request, since it was already spelled out for them: http://news.yah oo.com/zimmerman-jury-asks-for--clarificaton--on-manslaughter-charge-221141455.html All they had to agree to was that Trayvon Martin was dead and Zimmerman was at fault whether he intended to or not.

[BourbonBoy]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Except that's not supposed to be the bar. It isn't just "I felt threatened", or else anybody who says "hi" on an elevator can expect to get blown away.

It has to be a situation in which there's a reasonable expectation that the other person was about to kill him or do grievous bodily harm. Reasonable in that other people should be able to agree that it makes sense a person felt that way. Taking a punch or two or getting some scratches is harm but it is not grievous bodily harm.

That Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, especially in contradiction of the orders he was given during the phone call, made him the aggressor. You don't get to start a fight and then pull a gun when it looks like you're losing. He stalked and killed a kid and that's super terrible.

I completely agree. An out of shape cop wanna be confronts a kid and gets his ass handed to him is not justification to shoot and kill the kid.

Thing is, I live in a stand your ground state and some of the things that you're authorized to do make me nervous. I spoke to a city policeman about it and he said that if attacked (fists, knife, firearm) you're better off using lethal force because if you shoot them and only incapacitate them, chances are the DA will prosecute you for assault at the minimum. Hell, something similar happened to a friend of mine when she used a tazer on her ex-husband when he was damaging her car and knocking her around. After he threw her to the ground she zapped him but she was the one that was charged with assault, not him. She lucked out and only received probation, but think about that.

[ape descendant]

Fuck that verdict. Seriously, fuck this, people should be able to walk down the street without being ran down and killed by random paranoid white dude regardless of the color of their skin or how they wear their clothing. I feel sick, I think I'm going to go have a good cry now.

[Saya]

Also, you know how before the trial Barbara Walters was talking about his demands for interviews and how desperate he was for money? Now he can actually turn this around and profit from it if he writes a book or gets a movie deal.

[Jonathan]

Maybe crazy people shouldn't have guns after all.

[ape descendant]

Maybe racist pricks shouldn't have guns.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

Maybe racist pricks shouldn't have guns.

What do you think contributed more to Treyvon's death? His being black, or Zimmerman's Observe and Report fantasies?

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Saya

Also, you know how before the trial Barbara Walters was talking about his demands for interviews and how desperate he was for money? Now he can actually turn this around and profit from it if he writes a book or gets a movie deal.

That movie was already made http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3W0AnCAZsg

[ape descendant]

I'll put it this way, with two points.

First: If Trayvon had been some blonde haired, blue eyed golden boy, Zimmerman most likely would have been put away for life.

Second: If Trayvon had been some blonde haired, blue eyed golden boy, Zimmerman probably wouldn't have chased him down and shot him.

You have to be some sort of ignorant fool or completely blinded by racial privilege not to understand how this whole thing is all about race. On top of that it extends to the rest of us who may look "suspicious" whilst out for a stroll with a bag of fucking skittles.

The fact that he was acquitted of the charges only goes to show how widespread and endemic this fucking problem is.

Quit trying to make the mentally ill a scape goat for those who's hearts are filled with hatred.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

I'll put it this way, with two points.

First: If Trayvon had been some blonde haired, blue eyed golden boy, Zimmerman most likely would have been put away for life.

Second: If Trayvon had been some blonde haired, blue eyed golden boy, Zimmerman probably wouldn't have chased him down and shot him.

You have to be some sort of ignorant fool or completely blinded by racial privilege not to understand how this whole thing is all about race. On top of that it extends to the rest of us who may look "suspicious" whilst out for a stroll with a bag of fucking skittles.

The fact that he was acquitted of the charges only goes to show how widespread and endemic this fucking problem is.

Quit trying to make the mentally ill a scape goat for those who's hearts are filled with hatred.

It was at night and Treyvon was wearing a hoodie. How do you determine hair or eye color? Treyvon was a victim of opportunity, anyone else in that place and time would have very likely suffered the same fate.

[ape descendant]

Keep tellin' yourself that. You can see that shit up close during a fight, even at night... which is what happens before Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin.

I'm curious, are you even capable of an original thought, of considering points outside of your already rather set point of view?

No matter how much I discuss or argue with you I already know that you're going to cherry pick shitty data to support your two favorite points, "crazy people shouldn't have guns" and "racism don't real"

*eye roll* Seriously, guy. It helps if you pry your eyes open to look at what's in front of you in a deeper, more meaningful way than what's been spoon fed to you from birth.

[BourbonBoy]

Originally Posted by Saya

Also, you know how before the trial Barbara Walters was talking about his demands for interviews and how desperate he was for money? Now he can actually turn this around and profit from it if he writes a book or gets a movie deal.

What? I..fucking fuck this shit! I'll be in the angry dome

[Judas]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

That Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, especially in contradiction of the orders he was given during the phone call, made him the aggressor. You don't get to start a fight and then pull a gun when it looks like you're losing. He stalked and killed a kid and that's super terrible.

Except that he was not given any orders. 911 dispatchers don't have that authority. He was told that following wasn't necessary, and in response he said "okay" and stopped following.

[Solumina]

He was specifically told to stop following, he was not given a legal issue to stop following as 911 operators do not have that authority but he was advised to go back to his vehicle and to let the police handle it, but that is not what he did. If he had stopped following how would he have shot Trayvon?

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

Keep tellin' yourself that. You can see that shit up close during a fight, even at night... which is what happens before Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin.

I'm curious, are you even capable of an original thought, of considering points outside of your already rather set point of view?

No matter how much I discuss or argue with you I already know that you're going to cherry pick shitty data to support your two favorite points, "crazy people shouldn't have guns" and "racism don't real"

*eye roll* Seriously, guy. It helps if you pry your eyes open to look at what's in front of you in a deeper, more meaningful way than what's been spoon fed to you from birth.

The confrontation didn't start on the ground though - Zimmerman made the decision to follow Treyvon long before the two were face to face. In the audio from Zimmerman's call, he couldn't even confirm Treyvon's ethnicity until almost a minute and 10 seconds into his phone call. Is that dead solid proof? No. Obviously I can't confirm whether or not Zimmerman is truly in his heart a mean nasty racist. It is however a reasonable basis to assume Treyvon's race might not actually be the deciding factor in reaching his decision to creepily stalk him.

You have no idea what my point of view is. Usually any time I disagree with someone on here they try to lump me in with some ridiculous extreme group and make absurd assumptions about what I believe or outright ignore what I'm actually saying and beat up on strawman arguments. For example, I never said racism isn't real, however, here you are pretending I did.

Rather than try to consider what was going on, you take the lazy approach. A black kid was killed by someone who wasn't black, that can only mean RACISM full stop, case closed. There couldn't possibly be any other motivation, right?

---

You guys are right, "orders" isn't right. Judas, right on, Solumina, nailed it. If he had done what he was told, Treyvon would still be alive. Zimmerman couldn't just do what he was told and sit in his car to wait to give the police his report, he had to be the hero.

A series of stupid decisions by a guy who should not have been allowed to have a gun resulted in an absolutely needless death.

[Saya]

Man, it could have been a KKK lynching and people would still be saying "race had nothing to do with it." Zimmerman profiled him because of his race, because there had been break ins and robberies lately in which black men were suspects. This is why Zimmerman started the neighbourhood watch thing, entirely to look out for suspicious black men.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by BourbonBoy

What? I..fucking fuck this shit! I'll be in the angry dome

I was just thinking this is what happened with the Emmet Till case, after being acquitted his murderers got money for confessing for a magazine article and because of double jeopardy that confession couldn't be held against them. Apparently the feds can still charge Zimmerman in a civil rights case but I honestly have no idea how likely that is or how that works.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Saya

Man, it could have been a KKK lynching and people would still be saying "race had nothing to do with it." Zimmerman profiled him because of his race, because there had been break ins and robberies lately in which black men were suspects. This is why Zimmerman started the neighbourhood watch thing, entirely to look out for suspicious black men.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...hen-asked?lite

"Zimmerman mentioned race only when the dispatcher asked him to specify"

Let me guess - it was actually a clever ruse that he used in his long con so that when the day finally came a few people would think he was just a murderer instead of a racist murderer. 11th dimensional chess.

[Saya]

So he didn't outright say it when he talked to the dispatcher (except for that muffled part where he may or may not have used a racist slur). Most racists aren't really overt, like his dad. He was still explicitly on the look out for suspicious black men.

[Jonathan]

Zimmerman: the subtle kind of racist. You know, the ones that kill black kids.