How Much Jail Time For Women Who Have Abortions?

[Beneath the Shadows]

This article came to my attention over at another board where we've been discussing the same topic.

Pro-lifers don’t want women to be punished

Updated: 08/11/07 7:00 AM

I am just a simple housewife, like so many of my counterparts in the pro-life movement. But I do take offense to the notion that as a group we have not “connected the dots” or “thought things through.” What Anna Quindlen views as “infantilizing women” we see as a charitable belief that no woman who fully understands the action she is undertaking in committing abortion — that is, taking the life of her helpless baby — would ever commit so heinous an action.

And so when Quindlen brings the abortion debate down to the question of what the sentence would be for women who would break this law, the reason some people haven’t thought about a sentence is precisely because there is no anger directed at these women. We don’t seek revenge or want them punished.

There is tremendous compassion for them because of the belief that, in the majority of cases, they are just not properly informed about the harsh reality of the abortion procedure and its consequences.

In the end, those of us involved in the pro-life movement are in it not because we are against women and their rights, but because of the value we place in defending all life — both that of the unborn baby and that of the baby’s mother.

Mrene Corra

Williamsville

Source.

This, in my opinion, shows the double standards of the pro-lifers. They think abortion doctors are the scourge of the earth and should be punished to the fullest extend of the law, but the women who hire them are just misguided. I say that's a load of bull shit. If they want abortion illegal so badly, then they need to grow up and accept the fact that the women who get abortions are just as responsible for the doctors who perform the abortions, and should be punished accordingly. And even if the women are ignorant as to what they're doing, well, how often have people been sent to jail after being told that ignorance is no excuse?

[Lapin]

She sounds condescending. Like someone who makes me grind my teeth.

Women normally consider every aspect of abortion before they do it. They already understand the consequences, and are trying to prepare themselves. They don't need some twat saying "But dear, you just don't understand..."

[Wormboy]

I believe in what Rene Descartes said, "I think, therefore I am"
A fetus is a pile of cells, it's not murder if you get an abortion, it's damage control. Sometimes condoms break, sometimes shit happens, should we pay for all our mistakes without a chance to right them? Furthermore, some people just don't want kids. Me? I can't stand the little monsters, I have no interest in the existence of anyone under twelve, and even then, it's tentative.

So do we crucify every person who got fucked over by Trojan just because a bunch of bible humpers think its wrong? I don't think that's quite fair...

[Graveyard.Crow]

I personally don't think abortion is wrong. I had people tell me "well if you don't want the baby then just give it up for adoption later"
Well how about you carry it around for 9 months, permanently changing your body forever. Thanks

[aisehino]

Originally Posted by deafasadoornail

BACK TO THE TOPIC, CHILDREN.....

Here's the question as far as I see it. Abortion is a medical procedure. Euthenasia is also a medical procedure. Do we really want the government, the courts, the legislative bodies or anyone else to be making medical decisions for us?

There are quite a few hilarious arguments covering this (in the process of researching a paper on euthanasia). Many seem to believe that, if the right to life is not protected, people will feel bullied in to it. That is to say, if euthanasia were legal, old/ill relatives would feel like a burden and ask to be killed despite not truly wanting it, or the relatives footing the bill would pressure someone in to it.
Same sort of argument holds true for abortion. Teen mothers who want the child are apparently bullied in to abortion because, knowing there is another option, they will be persecuted by society for having the kid. Funny, I know a heap of teen mothers.

Originally Posted by Tha Duckman

I like to push women I've just had sex with down a flight of stairs, so she doesn't get pregnant. That way it's an act of God (As I am, quite obviously, God) and not abortion. Every body wins, and I get laid!

YAY!

...it can be seen as murder if you knew she was pregnant and intended to kill the kid, or "manslaughter with reckless indifference to life" if you just suspected it.

The more you know

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I've noticed a few of you saying "unless she can't pay for it" or "if birth control fails." FUCK THAT.

If you're choosing to have sex, be responsible enough to only have sex when you're ready to handle a kid, because things happen. If you can't afford it, close your fucking legs.

If you can't close your fucking legs, and you get pregnant, give it up for adoption.


See, here's my thing. I am pro-choice. I really am. But I am sick and tired of women using it as an excuse to act like reckless whores. Just because abortion is legal doesn't mean you're free to just get knocked up and suck the baby out. Get a grip.

You should only have sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of pro creation. Seriously, you sound like one of those old religious nuts who think orgasm is evil.

Birth control fails, abstinence fails too. Look at the rates of teen pregnancy in areas that teach abstinence only sex ed vs contraception.

Personally, I have been living with my fiance for 3 years. We live in a small apartment that could not house a child. We both have no desire for kids. However, too young for sterilisation.
We use condoms, but those break. I'm getting an IUD, but there's still a .1% chance there.

Shit happens. If it were illegal, I'd go back alley.

Originally Posted by Nitocris

There needs to be a meeting between their heads and some bricks....or maybe they already were bricked too many times. That is totally mental.

About sex as a luxury, I don't see it that way, as long as birth control is used correctly and one has a firm stance on what they would do if something bad happened and has actually thought about how they feel about it and what would be rational. I personally am not promiscuous, I just think that sex is one of many important elements of intimacy in a relationship.

Perhaps I feel overly defensive because I have a fear that someday I may have to have an abortion myself despite my own vigilance. I mean, when you have the stance "I am not having kids" and are too young for most doctors to agree to sterilize you, you are afraid, like a shadow is lurking overhead, always. People are frequently judgemental, and it's like an emotional scab being picked at all the time.

So I apologize for misunderstanding you, I hope you can see where I was coming from. No hard feelings?

Try for something like the implant or IUD, less chance of screwing that up than the pill (I assume that's what you mean you use).

Originally Posted by CptSternn

I just wonder how different American views on abortions would be if they had a social welfare system like the do in many parts of Europe.

In UK/Ireland heres how it works...

All child births are free. The government picks up the tab on all hospital visits, prescriptions, everything.

Once the child is born, you get a check from the government for a couple thousand Euro (like a couple thousand dollars). This is to pay for the babys needs - crib, clothes, bottles, etc.

Every month until the child is 18 you get a couple hundred Euro a month for child allowance. This pays for food and clothing.

Also, at the start of every school year (even through college), parents get another check to pay for food, new clothes, books, etc.

If the child does well in school and goes to college, college is paid for by the government and the parents continue to get monthly child payments until the child leaves college.

This isn't just for people who can't afford it, it's for every citizen.

If America had such a system in place to take care of a childs every need from birth, would abortions still happen there?

Similar here in Australia. Instead of abortions, we get teenagers getting knocked up for the baby bonus, believing that a kid is their free ride through life on social welfare.