Do you think paying reparations works?

[Qgirl]

There have been many atrocities in the history of most countries. Some countries try to find ways to make it up to the descendants of those the atrocities were committed against. In the US, reparations tends to be things like affirmative action for college admissions and job promotions and special legal exemptions such as for Indian (Why aren't they called Native American?) casinos.

As those the crimes were committed against are usually long-dust by the time someone says, "hey maybe we should not have done that, it being immoral and all," do reparations serve any function? Or do they just assuage the guilt of the descendants of wrong-doers and keep bigotry and prejudice alive?

[CptSternn]

They help level the playing field for groups which have been historically discriminated against.

How many millionaire Native Americans were there prior to the opening of those casinos? How many large businesses were owned and operated by Native Americans? None. Due to the course of actions taken many decades ago that group was left with less options than many other groups.

When you are born, life is like a menu with options you can choose from. The more wealth your family has, the more options you have. Although not impossible for someone born into a poor family to succeed, it is ten times more difficult. By allowing a few persons in a group which was held back to gain an advantage in society you thereby open up the options of the next generation in that group.

Children in those areas now have many more options than before. You can bet in the next decade the number of Native Americans who attend college, become CEO's of large businesses, and achieve other such high achievements in society will grow exponentially.

This in turn will remove the social barriers which exist and allow said groups to become more productive in society. Its a win/win situation.

[dbts]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

They help level the playing field for groups which have been historically discriminated against.

How many millionaire Native Americans were there prior to the opening of those casinos? How many large businesses were owned and operated by Native Americans? None. Due to the course of actions taken many decades ago that group was left with less options than many other groups.

When you are born, life is like a menu with options you can choose from. The more wealth your family has, the more options you have. Although not impossible for someone born into a poor family to succeed, it is ten times more difficult. By allowing a few persons in a group which was held back to gain an advantage in society you thereby open up the options of the next generation in that group.

Children in those areas now have many more options than before. You can bet in the next decade the number of Native Americans who attend college, become CEO's of large businesses, and achieve other such high achievements in society will grow exponentially.

This in turn will remove the social barriers which exist and allow said groups to become more productive in society. Its a win/win situation.

Playing field is not level at all, bro. Giving the undeserving opportunities and educations is not cool. Things should be based on your accomplishments and your efforts, not based on the color of your skin. There are poor white people, too. They aren't on the menu. No one owes you squat. The government is not responsible for you. Outside of the KKK, there are no white people that have done anything to you or your ancestors. You are not above anyone else. You do not deserve special anything, and we should not have to suffer or deal with reverse racism, reverse prejudism and lack of opportunities, just because we were not born black/Asian, Native American or Latino. We don't choose our parents, and unless you're Michael Jackson, you can't change your race, either.

In regards to Native American millionaires.. I went to school with some. Their parents owned smoke shops all over the state... And despite what you may think, most Native Americans don't see any of that casino money. It's NOT a good thing. How do I know? I LIVE in "Native America" (Oklahoma) & crap like that is in the news all the time. No one is ever happy, no matter HOW much you give them!

[dbts]

Originally Posted by Qgirl

There have been many atrocities in the history of most countries. Some countries try to find ways to make it up to the descendants of those the atrocities were committed against. In the US, reparations tends to be things like affirmative action for college admissions and job promotions and special legal exemptions such as for Indian (Why aren't they called Native American?) casinos.

As those the crimes were committed against are usually long-dust by the time someone says, "hey maybe we should not have done that, it being immoral and all," do reparations serve any function? Or do they just assuage the guilt of the descendants of wrong-doers and keep bigotry and prejudice alive?

Q.) Why aren't they called Native American?

A.) Because when Columbus came here, he thought he was in India, and they aren't "Native" to the US. They migrated here just like everyone else, the only difference is that they got here before everyone else. Still doesn't make 'em "native", though.


As for Reparations:

I think if you truly want equality, let everyone be given an equal opportunity for things. Stuffing people in colleges and work places and handing out promotions to people that don't work as hard, are not smart enough or who are incapable of doing the job correctly JUST because you are required by law to meet a certain racial quota is not what I'd consider an equal opportunity. It's part of the reason America has gone down the toilet (in my opinion).

That being said... I am NOT a racist. My best friend is black, and my ex was Korean... And I come from a "Native American" family (Iroquois/Cherokee/Blackfoot).

In short, I do not believe giving people money for something, or promotions, or stuffing them in colleges that they are not smart enough to attend without special benefits & considerations is the answer. Teaching people NOT to be racists, NOT to do the things that were done in the past and to teach that you should RESPECT or at least tolerate eachother is what should happen. It really upsets me that "minority" races get into places like Harvard, just because they are a minority, rather than because they actually have the smarts to attend. Frankly, it's offensive. I don't want a stupid lawyer or doctor... But I feel like each generation is becoming less and less intelligent and that we're digressing, instead of progressing... Partly because of special treatment and political correctness.

Also.... I did not do anything to ANYONE.. I do not feel that I owe anyone anything if they haven't deserved it. I can't help what my ancestors did. I can't change history. I can only change how I think, how I see things and I should only be responsible for my own actions. How can you hold ME responsible for things that happened 400 years ago? America wasn't even America 400 years ago! America is only 233 years old!!!! I wasn't even alive 400 years ago. I'm not the one that sold your great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother/grandfather to the Brazilians & Spaniards that brought them to America. I am not the AFRICAN CHIEF that sold them! I am NOT the one that made them pick cotton. I am not the one that beat them or whatever. Do you even know if they were beaten? Have you ever seen slaves quarters? Go to New Orleans. They have an abundance of historical places you can visit. I've seen slave quarters & some people STILL live in them. Guess they weren't all that bad, or they'd be torn down or something by now! (I do not support slavery, I'm just pointing out that if they were so unlivable and horrid, that people wouldn't use them as homes today)

I would like to mention that when I see a "minority race", I don't see them as a minority. I see them as people, as Americans.. Not as anything else... Well, sometimes I'll be like "wow.. that guy is hot.." or "good god, what a homely human being!" But I don't sit there and stew over people because of their ethnicity. The truth is that most people really don't give a shit what color you are, as long as you are a nice, competent person with some sort of common sense, people will like you. My best friend is black, my ex was Korean, and my family is a mix of Native Americans & whites.

Native Americans and blacks and etc get all these special benefits & white people are just left in the dark. Illegal aliens get more access to government funded programs than Caucasians do.. Or it takes 10 times as long to get approved for something if you're white, which is wrong.

As I've said, my best friend is black and she married a white guy... She now has problems getting things approved, because she married a white guy. Before he came into her life, she had no problems with getting food stamps or government assistance. She was telling me all these issues she was having & I said "you shouldn't have married one of us whities!" and she laughed & didn't think I was serious.. But I started explaining things to her that she never understood until I was telling her about them. Things like reverse racism & stuff. I don't think she should be on food stamps or government assistance. I think her and her husband need to get off their lazy asses and get jobs and work, like I have to and like you have to and like most people have to. It's not my job to take care of them & support their children. If they couldn't afford them, they should have used protection. Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's just how I see it.

Honestly, I never knew what racism was until I moved to where I live now. I was raised with Mexicans & Vietnamese, I grew up learning about all kinds of different cultures, was always around people that spoke multiple languages and to me it's just normal. I was never taught that any one race was better than the next.. When I was little & went to church, I heard songs like:

"Jesus loves the little children,
All the children of the world.
Red and yellow, black and white,
All are precious in His sight,
Jesus loves the little children of the world."

To me, that was just how it was... I figured if God created all the different colors of people, and they all made him happy, WHO THE HECK WAS I to put any one above another? I still feel that way! When I moved here, people started treating me differently, because I was white & went to a primarily black and Hispanic school. I got beat up for no reason & girls spit in my drinks in home economics and all kinds of other garbage. I didn't understand why no one liked me or why I had no friends, until later! I have never thought bad about anyone, just because of their race, and I think it's really unfair for someone to sit there and act like I owe them something, when I don't feel like I do, because I've done nothing to anyone.

Also, the "special" medical care that Native Americans get is total crap. They don't fix your teeth if something is wrong with them, they just yank them out of your skull & slap dentures in there. That's not fair. They don't do surgery, they just give you pills, which destroy your body and make you have other things wrong with you, which make you need 30 more pills to correct, then when you get side effects from those, you have to take 2 more for each of those pills and so on and so forth until you die. They don't fix anything. How's that helping them? It's just like throwing government money down the toilet & needlessly making people suffer. That really needs to be changed. I think the special medical care that they get should be trashed & real doctors that actually fix things should look at these people. I also don't think it's the government's job to pay for your doctor bills. The government doesn't owe you shit. You're just being a lazy ass and not wanting to work for things. (Not every situation is like that, but the majority are.)

Nothing about what is or what has been going on is fair. There is nothing that us whities can do, except to not make the same mistakes as our ancestors did... And to point out that white people suffer from reverse discrimination (ie: it's okay and even stylish to make fun of white people if you're black, Asian or Latino.. Look at Chris Rock's jokes for example... But GOD FORBID a white guy make fun of a Latino or a Black person! THAT would be racist!)

I just think everything is massively screwed up and that people should take responsibility for shit themselves. Stop being a baby & sucking on uncle sam's tits... Work hard in school, Get a Job, work hard there, too, and EARN things for yourself. You'd feel better & have more pride for yourself. No one OWES you anything! If you want reparations, go chase down the KKK or something. Those are the stupid fuckers that cause trouble for everyone that's a minority.. Not all white people are like that & not all white people should have to pay for things that those assholes have done. And like I said before.. I am not responsible for what happened 400 years ago. I am not even responsible for what happened 60 years ago. I can't change any of it. I didn't do any of it. Therefore I am not obligated to give you shit, and I think everyone should be judged on the same criteria, and given a fair shake, regardless of what color they are.

I do NOT believe that just because you are a certain color, certain sexual orientation or certain gender, you should receive special benefits. I also don't think that just because you can squirt out a couple kids, you deserve copious amounts of tax money. That was INSANELY STUPID.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by dbts

It really upsets me that "minority" races get into places like Harvard, just because they are a minority, rather than because they actually have the smarts to attend.

Don't be stupid.

[dbts]

Originally Posted by JCC

Don't be stupid.

I wasn't being stupid. What I was saying is that no one should be allowed in a university just because of their skin color. It should be based on their educational achievements and everyone should be judged by the same standards.. They shouldn't just have to select someone that's a minority just to fill their quota, as required by law.. People should be able to go there because they are genuinely intelligent enough to attend that school. Color should not even be a factor. If you're smart enough, you're in. Intelligence isn't in your skin color.

How's that being stupid? lol

[JCC]

Because educational institutions like Harvard don't say "Come here, intellectually inferior Cherokee who cannot tie his own laces! Allow us to pile lavish opportunities for success upon you, while you try and remember to differentiate your left from your right!". People who get into Harvard have the brains. What's more, there's an enormous gap between the education standards of minorities compared to whites because minorities generally live in poor areas, so any movement towards an equal opportunities style scheme tries to give people leverage out of poor areas, and those apply to poor white people too, but you don't get those if you're not smart enough to warrant them. You're buying into this passive racism shit of "They're taking our jobs, they're flooding our schools, equal opportunities is reverse racism" etc.

[dbts]

Originally Posted by JCC

Because educational institutions like Harvard don't say "Come here, intellectually inferior Cherokee who cannot tie his own laces! Allow us to pile lavish opportunities for success upon you, while you try and remember to differentiate your left from your right!". People who get into Harvard have the brains. What's more, there's an enormous gap between the education standards of minorities compared to whites because minorities generally live in poor areas, so any movement towards an equal opportunities style scheme tries to give people leverage out of poor areas, and those apply to poor white people too, but you don't get those if you're not smart enough to warrant them. You're buying into this passive racism shit of "They're taking our jobs, they're flooding our schools, equal opportunities is reverse racism" etc.

I disagree. I don't believe I'm being a passive racist. I have no issues with anyone. I don't think minorities are taking jobs away from me (or anyone else) or that equal opportunities are reverse racism. What I am saying is that people, companies, colleges, etc, should not just choose someone just to fill their racial quota. It should be equal and the same for everybody, otherwise it's not really equal opportunity!

I also think America should set a higher standard for education, instead of continuously lowering the standards just so people can pass. IE: If you don't get it the first time you go through 7th grade, I guess you just need to repeat it until you can pass... Not "oh well let me lower the exam requirements for you" Everyone has state exams that they have to take. Those state exams are all the same. I've lived in various states, in various areas, from poor ghettos to suburbans & I've gone to public and private schools. The only difference that I noticed was that in the Private schools, they required you to do more things, and in public schools it was extra credit/optional. Private schools go through a large number of things very quickly, and in public schools it was more relaxed & if you didn't get something done on schedule, oopsie daisy there's always tomorrow. That's more the teacher's fault than the educational requirements. I've never heard that poor people's educational requirements were less than anyone else's, so if that's true, that's news to me!.. And something definitely needs to be done to fix that, because it's horseshit!

I'm also not sitting there saying Native Americans are stupid, like you're accusing me of. I think Native Americans are just as intelligent as anyone else. I have Native American blood! I can't sit there & say that they are stupid, and I wouldn't call any person stupid, just because of their ethnicity! There's so many brilliant doctors and historical figures and musicians and just so many talented people that are minorities. I would never in a million years sit there & say that anyone was stupid because of their ethnicity. That is BS! Honestly, I wouldn't care if Harvard had nothing but people that were minority races in it. If they met the same requirements as everyone else had to & earned their way to that school, and the university wasn't just filling their quota for the year, then I would be extremely happy for them, just like I would be for anyone who got into a good school. I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying (or trying to say). I just don't think that giving a free handout to someone is cool. If you select a person that's a minority, because they meet the educational requirements and all the other requirements that everyone else has to meet, then that's fine. If you are selecting someone that's a minority, just because you are required to meet a yearly quota, then that is not right & they don't deserve a free handout, just because of their ethnicity.