Homophobia in metal

Draconysius · 02-14-2007, 10:36 AM

I've found an overwhelming sense of homophobia in metal. I mean, just look at ANY metal-centered forum and people will throw around "gay" and "fag" like nonchalant insults. Not just that, but so many "metalheads" have insulted me for the way I look. You're insulting me for wearing lipstick when 50% of your favorite bands wear nail polish and a good 70% of black metal bands wear lipstick? You're insulting me for my deathawk when none of all of you are either car-wax-bald or elf-like long haired? The hypocrisy is unbelievable. Hell, even Vampirefreaks is comprised of 50% or so metalheads who don't listen to one smidget of gothic music. (I don't understand what the hell they're doing there, instead of whitesupremacyforfiveyearoldsmetal.com or something)

I've seriously lost almost all respect for metalheads because of what I've witnessed. I personally grew out of the metalhead phase in my life. But I guess some people never reach past the intellectualism of a 10-year-old. Your opinions?

killer_asian_Dax · 02-14-2007, 10:45 AM

I've noticed that as well. For a time it so happened that a good 90% of who I hung out with were metalheads. But I A) eventually outgrew it and B) could no longer tolerate their myopic views on other subcultures.

Most of what I heard from them was, in a nutshell "If you don't like metal and aren't as 'core' as we are, then you're a pussy. Period."

But I try not to let it irk me and keep telling myself that karma will get them and if anything, their kids (or at least one of them, more than likely their son) will turn out gay. Flaming even.

bleedingheart344 · 02-14-2007, 10:46 AM

I sill listen to metal and stuff. I agree with you though, but now it's like everyone uses "gay" to describe something, or to insult, it's a very unintelligent way of insult, but I always smile when I see people this stupid, to know that I can be more intelligent than people a lot older than I am. I get insulted on appearence too, it's hard not to let it get to me, mostly because the people that insult me aren't surrounded by people that wear make-up, unless actors in movies wearing make-up count... :-/

L1feOnM4rs · 02-14-2007, 11:10 AM

I've actually met some really nice metal heads, some of whom genuinely appreciate goth.

That said...

I think you're absolutely right. I think that Metal culture in general is based largely on idiotic male aggression, sexism, juvenile rebellion, and homophobia. Though there is some crossover between Metal and Gothic music, I think that as subcultures the two are pretty much incompatible. People (including goths and metal heads) often confuse the two, acting as if Goths and Metal heads are peas in a pod just because they're both "dark" in some way. Its like saying that Johnny Cash and Sauron would be best buds because Johnny cash wears black and Sauron is an ancient evil wizard - they're both kinda creepy after all! Metal culture tends to lack all of the good qualities of Gothic culture - mainly the sophistication. As I said, they just get lumped in with the Goths because they're kind of "spooky." In reality most of them are worse than their supposed "preppy" nemeses. Metal isn't counter culture, its just one of many manifestations of the ignorance and hate that pervades society. Just common, every day, run of the mill hate, the cement that holds together the bricks of the society they profess to hate.

Disclaimer: I kind of got into a rant on this one. I don't mean to come across as so extreme, I guess the topic just got me heated. There are a lot of good Metal Kids out there who are exceptions to this. If you are one such person, this rant is not directed at you. In fact, I applaud you! You're awesome! Just please tell some of the not so great metal-heads you know to wake up and stop acting like complete assholes.

Ictum · 02-14-2007, 11:41 AM

Woha, stop there, take a breath and repost this in the whine section

.
Generalizations are bad aye?

But yes, most of the metalheads are indeed rather imature. Homophobia is ridiculous.
I'm glad to say I "outgrew" that and now stay with Doom/Funeral Metal, which got a much more understanding and mature audience.

I feel like I'm contradicting myself.

Elliot · 02-14-2007, 02:59 PM

I only partially agree with you.

As someone sometimes called a metalhead, I say that I am not homophobic. My "metalhead" friends are not homophobic, though I've seen quite a few who are.

Generally speaking, I've always felt metal, at least the kind I listen to, to be a genre comprised of extraordinarily practically intelligent listeners. However, that is because most of the metal fans I know who are very serious about their music have intelligent interests, and prefer to read philosophical literature or take cool college class than to not shower and wear a Slipknot shirt to scare children in the mall.

So, I think that you've drawn a conclusion that many metalheads are homophobic because most self-described "metalheads" know nothing about true metal, and probably very unintelligent.

blah blah blah

What I'm trying to say is that generally, very smart people are not homophobic because they are exposed to whatever. Generally, metal fans are smart, however many people who are not smart and claim to lsiten to metal are not smart. More insanely stupid listen to "metal" than any other genre.

St._Exmin · 02-14-2007, 04:37 PM

It's true, it's always the least intelligent people who end up representing sub-cultures-- the loudest people with the most reactionary views.

L1feOnM4rs · 02-14-2007, 05:53 PM

I'm totally behind you guys and apologize for generalizing (I knew I was doing it at the time, and I hate generalizations, but for some reason I couldn't stop myself.) Actually, my best friend at college is a metal head who is very intelligent and is not a homophobe (though he does get a bit violent, but its all for fun...usually.) I suppose this sounds hypocritical, but its not. Mostly. I did say that "I've actually met some really nice metal heads, some of whom genuinely appreciate goth," but I still overgeneralized based on my limited experience. I'm from a Long Island suburb not especially reputed for its rich subcultures, so the few people I know from high school who were "metal" were almost certainly poor representations of metal kids in general. St Exmin is right - it does tend to be the loudest people with the most reactionary views, which is also why goths tend to be viewed as being exclusively pretentious attention hungry, socially inept rejects, though this group accounts for only a piece of the subculture. So I stand by my general sentiment, but apologize for the generalizations. Metal kids (the cool ones) and goth kids (the cool ones) unite!

Mir · 02-14-2007, 05:59 PM

I've also noticed a lot of, "Metal is for white people" crap.

When people claim that they are metalheads/goths/Punks, I tend to avoid them entirely because they are usually the least open minded of them all.

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 02-14-2007, 06:02 PM

Metal annoys me if it's homophobic like that.

Godslayer Jillian · 02-14-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mir

When people claim that they are metalheads/goths/Punks, I tend to avoid them entirely because they are usually the least open minded of them all.

Well, that in itself is close-minded as some would argue. But then again, it's stupid to believe discrimination is a bad thing.

asta_tintora · 02-14-2007, 06:47 PM

The 'metal heads' I've met have been good people for the most part. If they do say anything, usually a good "I'll skin you and make you into my own personal blanket if you say that again" shuts them up. Hm, there would still be a shortage of blankets and come to think of it, a leather blanket wouldn't be very comfortable.

Vyusher · 02-14-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconysius

I've seriously lost almost all respect for metalheads because of what I've witnessed.

So, you've lost all respect for a generalized group of people based largely upon their lack of respect for a generalized group of people?
Speaking of metal, this post reminds me of Iron.
You know; Irony.

Mir · 02-14-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Well, that in itself is close-minded as some would argue.

Fair observation. Truth is, I am now, after meeting so many of them, just not predisposed to the idea of talking to them and finding out which way they lean on such issues. The "I just don't care anymore" and my general laziness combine to stunning effect. Plus, I'm just not around people much anymore (exception being when I'm at work) so it doesn't really matter much to me anyway.

Plus I did say "tend to" and "usually" and not, "everytime" and "always".

Godslayer Jillian · 02-14-2007, 07:40 PM

Don't worry, that's why I said that it's stupid to believe discrimination is a bad thing.
Now, most people are picturing discrimination as racism or a similar prejudice, but discrimination is nothing but making a distinction.
Being entirely open-minded is as logical as reading all the books in Barnes&Nobles before making an opinion in any of them.

L1feOnM4rs · 02-14-2007, 09:17 PM

Though it may be unfair in a way to dislike individual metal heads you don't know just because a lot of them are assholes, It is fair to lose respect for the metal-head culture as a whole (not necessarily all of its adherents.) I have little love for metal culture, but there are people I'm close with who are metal heads and as I like them I'm not discriminating against them, or their involvement in metal culture, since they are involved with the "good side" of metal.

Very well put Jillian. I personally can't stand (or tolerate) the whole "being intolerant of intolerance is hypocritical" argument. Though it at first appears to make clear and obvious sense, it is an overly simplistic, misguided point often advanced by those who (Ironically!) are also intolerant. Did anyone here say that they were intolerant of ANY and ALL forms of intolerance, in effect against intolerance itself? No. They are against unfair and undeserved intolerance - specifically intolerance towards people for their sexual orientation. I'm not against "Intolerance" as a general concept, I'm against intolerance of other people's innocuous lifestyles. Being a gay-basher may be a lifestyle, and a personal choice, but its not an innocuous one. It hurts other people for no justifiable reason. If you are intolerant of people who you have no reason to be intolerant toward, or enable, defend or aid such people, you are causing harm, and that is something I won't tolerate. I speak without hypocrisy and without irony when I say:

I will not tolerate your intolerance.

Frankenscott · 02-14-2007, 09:58 PM

I believe most metal heads are smart good hearted people. Most people associated with dramatic stereotypes IE: Metal, Goth, Pseudo-gansta are people who want you to respect whats underneath the asthetics of the world we rattle around in. People who use these subcultures to define the integrity of their peers are just inscure

ps... I would classify myself: 40% Metal, 35% Ambient, 5% Goth and 20% enigmatic

Godslayer Jillian · 02-14-2007, 10:13 PM

I consider myself 15% goth and 85% cuddly.
And I'm way goth! ^^

DancesWithPeacocks · 02-14-2007, 11:07 PM

I find that both punks and metal heads have an awful lot of homophobes in the ranks. Sure there are 40% of each culture that are actually open minded, but being small subcultures, they are a rare find. I used to identify as a punk but I grew out of it when I realized the hypocrisy of their supposed counter-culture.

Vako · 02-15-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconysius

I've found an overwhelming sense of homophobia in metal. I mean, just look at ANY metal-centered forum and people will throw around "gay" and "fag" like nonchalant insults. Not just that, but so many "metalheads" have insulted me for the way I look. You're insulting me for wearing lipstick when 50% of your favorite bands wear nail polish and a good 70% of black metal bands wear lipstick? You're insulting me for my deathawk when none of all of you are either car-wax-bald or elf-like long haired? The hypocrisy is unbelievable. Hell, even Vampirefreaks is comprised of 50% or so metalheads who don't listen to one smidget of gothic music. (I don't understand what the hell they're doing there, instead of whitesupremacyforfiveyearoldsmetal.com or something)

I've seriously lost almost all respect for metalheads because of what I've witnessed. I personally grew out of the metalhead phase in my life. But I guess some people never reach past the intellectualism of a 10-year-old. Your opinions?

Well, just when I thought I found a crowd that accepts me. Excuse me for being older. Excuse me for having "elf-hair" (and I know exactly what you mean by that). I have been searching for a long time, and all I find is this sort of division. By the way, I'm a homosexual. Been out since I was 18. It's been a difficult path, but as it went, I realized I enjoyed Metal... AND Goth. Maybe I should throw it all away because I am "forfiveyearoldsmetal.com or something". I was always rejected and maligned by the "mainstream Metal culture", the "gay world", and the Goth subculture. I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't. So excuse me if I try to find my "tribe".

And just to let you all know, I am anti-racist. I believe in racial equality.

P.S.
I got bitten by a goose in the park yesterday.

L1feOnM4rs · 02-15-2007, 05:42 AM

Death to the goose!

Mir · 02-15-2007, 05:46 AM

The Goose is an illusion you see, because we are all manifestations of the one true God which is love and there is no need to lack or suffer.. ever.

Draconysius · 02-15-2007, 08:56 AM

I didn't say all metlaheads are homophobes. I said there is a great ammount of self-described "metalheads" who are homophobes.

And as for metal and goth, does anyone ELSE remember that goth, back in its forming days, was the antithesis to metal? Goths are usually quiet, introverted, introspective, poetic, and androgynous while metalheads are usually loud, outroverted, superficial, racist, and full of male-ego-centrism. They have nothing in common and it really does upset when some people think metal and goth have ANYTHING in common.

Frankenscott · 02-15-2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconysius

...metalheads are usually loud, outroverted, superficial, racist, and full of male-ego-centrism.

Now THAT'S being prejudiced.... and the word is extroverted

Draconysius · 02-15-2007, 09:02 AM

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy metal. I'm just very frustrated by the hypocrisy of people. I needed to get that out, I suppose, and remember that assholes exist in EVERY facet of society, no matter how open-minded their ancestors were. Hillbilly punks, Klansmetallers, and Wankstas are just another broken building block in modern society.

My argument is put to rest, and I'll be the wiser for it.