Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Ferry, Great Pumpkin, and Horace the Moonshine Guzzling...

10-09-2005, 09:05 AM

Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Ferry, Great Pumpkin, and Horace the Moonshine Guzzling-Revenue Dodging Pal.

These are some myths I grew up with as a child, with Horace being my personal favorite, and since it’s nearing the time of myths (Holidays) I’m hearing a lot of traffic on the radio concerning the perpetuation (though none of Horace who will always live near and dear in my heart) but there has been talk about the evil, vile nature of Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Ferry, and the Great Pumpkin.

Not so much on the Great Pumpkin either, oddly enough.

Me, I can make an argument for or against (practically) any subject. Or, as my dad so eloquently put it so long ago, “Talking with you boy, is like talking to a stone wall.” I’m just going to go out on a limb and assume that’s why he still calls me Stonewall some twenty-three years later.

On this matter though; the matter of myths, about allegedly lying to children on the existence of iconic personalities, it’s so easy for me to make an argument against since I do take exceptional offense to, and wish Horace was around with his jugs of unregulated sprits, that I could stuff socks in their openings, light the socks, and chunk the large and extremely volatile 190 proof Molotov Cocktails in the general direction of the naysayers…and then I, Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Ferry, ye Great Pumpkin, and even Horace could all gather round the pyre, singing songs of remembrance for the Yule Turd, dead now but not forgotten.

I most often hear two sides to the argument, and in this instance I’ll concentrate on Santa’s ghost. I hear the, “Christmas is for Christians,” side, and the opposition’s, “It’s an unhealthy lie, which only bad parents tell their children,” shtick.

“Christmas is for Christians? Silly habit, that shits for kids.”

Is my canned response to the first.

and

“The only unhealthy lie is one which is self-serving in nature.”

Is my usual response to the last.

This is (primarily) one of those issues I see where both sides agree. On the fanatical Christian front are those peoples who want to keep Christmas Christ-massish, and on the opposite side are those fanatical peoples who don’t want the religion invading their homes under the guise of a fat man in a red suit.

And so they make life difficult for the rest of us, and they try to kill Santa, or at least banish him to the frozen north, where he just grows cold and bitter…dreaming of righteous revenge and the day he can shove his candy cane up the fanatical anuses of the right and left side.

If you are Christian then you need not worry about Santa stealing your holiday. Look at him more like how the Government looks at marijuana—think of him as a gateway myth—which will (invariably) get some folks hooked hardcore on the concept of your lord and savior. If you’re not Christian and draw offense to the idea of Santa, then get over your fragile notions of what does and does not constitute a truth, and see the underlying message for what it is.

My kids believe in Santa, they believe in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Ferry, and the Great Pumpkin. They even believe in Horace, the Revenue Dodging-Booze Smuggling pal (although he was a reality to my dad, the tales related to me and, a generation later to my kids, have grown mythological in proportion) and the reason they believe is because we have perpetuated the myth, the concept, even the notion that it is extremely noble to give something, with no thought of receiving something in return. No expectation of reward or acknowledgement for all giving.

On Christmas day my children receive presents, and the gift they most dearly wanted—the one which they hinted at, underlined, bolded, circled-stared, and drew lines around—that is the one gift (and there is only ever one from Santa for each of them) but that’s the one gift under the tree that reads, “From Santa, To…”

I want my children to understand the value of giving something, and not receiving the recognition for it, which we (my wife and I) can do only setting the example. So, in that spirit of the definition, the mythological holidayesque icons—those beloved egg laying, present giving, tooth ferrying, pumpkin growing, whiskey distilling—and their teeming legions, are all very real, and very essential to our growth as individuals.

…

Long live the Pumpkin King!

Disfunction · 10-09-2005, 09:28 AM

I remember when my parents told me that Santa Claus didn't exist, I was so pissed off. I was mad at them for lying to me. Actually, I think I threw a mighty little temper tantrum. I think that was because I wanted to know everything for how it really was, not for how people told me it was. That's why when I was introduced to portions of the Christian mythology that I became further sceptical. Then the Buddhism... then the atheism... and now venganzan creationism.

I suppose that it's imbued as a part of our culture, and it gives parents the opportunity to perform the only sefless act that I believe humans are capable of, and that's letting someone else take credit for something they did. Of course, it's not really selfless, because it makes most parents happy to see their children happy... but that's another matter entirely.

As an atheist raised under Christian influences, I intend on raising my children, should I have any, under a secular form of Christmas, much like I was. I don't see any harm in it, and it gives the kids something to believe in, and if in the end they like the concept of believing in something, then it gives them a gateway to any religion they choose (due to personal bias, I just hope they don't choose to become Wiccan unless they have a good source of information unlike many of the kids today that throw themselves unknowingly into a concept).

I'm not sure exactly where I'm going with that, but I'll try to tie it in. While I was upset with my parents for having lied to me, over time I accepted that Christmas would have held a lot less mysticism, as it later did. It was nice to have something to look forward to nearing the end of first semester each year, etc.

On the Christian front, as Santa Claus is based off of a real Saint who went around giving children presents, there's no harm. No harm whatsoever.

If that made sense, I'll be giving myself a high five and a pat on the back.

----

Horace sounds like an intriguin fellow.

wikked · 10-09-2005, 04:35 PM

Christmas is one very pagan holiday, regardless of what some Christians might try to say!

First off, look at the date. December 25th was the birthdate of Mithras. As a Christian, I have always been taught that Jesus was born in autumn.

Then, there are the traditions.

It's not Christian to bring a tree into your home and deck it with silver and gold. It's even spoken against in the Bible. Ancient Egyptians brought palm into their homes during solstice while druid priests decorated oak trees with golden apples.

Mistletoe and holly are both sacred to druids. The Yule Log was burned to honor the sun. Christmas carols originate from songs sung during Winter Solstice.

So the next time somebody attempts to stick a little Jesus into your "special" eggnog, tell them where to stick their Christmas tree- but let them know where it came from first!

Oh, but erm... don't let them know I was the one who told you to do that. They might give me a hard time next Sunday.

edible_eye · 10-09-2005, 05:38 PM

i don't give a flying fuck what religion lays claim to christmas. in my house, it belongs to my kids, first and foremost. that's it.

heads of various religions can battle it out afterward in whatever way makes them feel comfortable laying their heads on their prettily decorated pillows at night - and i understand that the 25th is supposed to be jesus's birthday - but the setup, decorating and ultimate celebration is for my children, primarily and for the family aferward.

my wife, who is a bit more reverential to her church than i, makes sure to take the kids out and get a present for baby jesus each christmas, i guess to drive the point home and so my kids understand it's the celebration of jesus's birthday, in a round-a-bout way. it's beneficial for them to look outward anyway, while they're racking up the loot.

and for anyone who is offended by the celebration of christmas - eat shit. don't celebrate it if you don't want to - but step in front of me or mine to tell me we shouldn't either and i'll make sure you get the two thousand or so punches jesus should be collecting each and every birthday... even if i have to take a few breaks to get them all in.

10-09-2005, 06:25 PM

You are so right! I didn't know any of that shit! How could we have been so wrong for so long???

I had no idea that Prince Albert integrated the tree into Christianity and popularized the concept (in England) around 1841 (being of Germanic decent that makes absolutely no sense) or even that the concept spread into the Americas to become a happy tradition during the late 1800’s…

Goshgeewilliewillows peoples, why does no one tell me this stuff?

And I have nothing against people wanting to celebrate Christmas in a traditional sense, being that possession is 9/10th of the law, I’ll concede ownership of the holiday to Christians.

I, by no means, want to take it back from them. When I say them, I mean to say people like my kids, because they are three brave soldiers of Christ, don’t ch’ know.

Myself, not so.

My major complaint is with the people who want to horde it, along with other good ideas, to themselves; and people who take exception to it and want to do away with it completely because it (and the ilk) violates what they perceive to be the truth.

To the former I would ask to share it, and to the latter I would say it’s far more difficult to hate a thing once you’ve found something about it to love.

And Wikked, kindly do refrain from attempting to turn my love fest about the holidays into a battle royale?

AlKilyu · 10-09-2005, 06:51 PM

Dennis Miller on the ACLU (the ACLU Hasn't A-C-L-U-E)

"They have no use for common sense; they think it’s common. The big ACLU push during the holidays now is to get rid of public depictions of the Nativity Scene during Christmas. Yeah, that’s what’s wrong with the country, plastic depictions of Christ's birth. The ACLU has now degenerated to the point where they’ll fight against your right to erect a Nativity Scene but they’ll fight for the right of the local freak who stumbles into the scene and fondles one of the sheep."

wikked · 10-09-2005, 06:54 PM

Golly. You were taught that Jesus was born on the 25th? If you do a little research, you'll find out that Bishop Julius I was the one who decreed we ought to celebrate the birth of Christ on that date. Before that, people in different areas were celebrating at different times.

At any rate, I wasn't trying to tell anybody how to spend their day. Hope I didn't come across that way. I just wanted to point out that there is definitely more to Christmas than the Christian side of it.

AlKilyu · 10-09-2005, 07:00 PM

Just out of curiosity what brought this on?

Jane13 · 10-09-2005, 07:18 PM

I actually found out with the Easter Bunny... I was SO FLIPPIN' MAD. I cryed outside my granny's house for a couple hours screaming "You lied to me! You LIED TO ME!!".

My granny told me that she wasn't allowed to beleive in the Easter bunny for a second because her family was very protestant. My dad was like "I found out way before you did..." My mom just sighed and asked me if I still wanted my candy >.<

Wikked, cut it out. I didn't even randomly pull this stuff out back when I was experimenting with paganism.

Anyway, yeah, I think if I have kids I'll let them beleive in Santa and stuff... but once they grow out of it I'm going to expain off of what the stories were based. On another note, a bunch of kids in my highschool class were talking about the real story of santa, and I promptly corrected them with the story my beloved friend Kaat told me.

"No, you guys are stupid. The reall story is that there was this butcher that was eating up all he little boys in the village. Saint Nicolaus liked kids, so he cut open the butcher's stomache with an ax and the boys came out of his stomache alive and whole. It's true because Kaat said it is, so there."

Also, saint Nicolaus is the patron Saint of pawn brokers. Don't know how that works exactly...

edible_eye · 10-09-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikked

Golly. You were taught that Jesus was born on the 25th? If you do a little research, you'll find out that Bishop Julius I was the one who decreed we ought to celebrate the birth of Christ on that date. Before that, people in different areas were celebrating at different times.

actually, i was taught that we were celebrating christ's birth on christmas, or december 25th. read into that however you'd like. personally, i could care less whether he was born then or on april 31st of a leap year.

and i don't care who decreed it, but hey - if you're a history buff and that's your thing, more power to you. thanx for the 'trivial pursuit' tid-bit.

Courtenay1218 · 10-09-2005, 08:31 PM

Hell, I beleive in God, I beleive in Jesus, but the whole bible thing..I'm not too sure about it. I mean, it was written by his "homies", and I know if I had a story to tell, and my friends wrote it, it be all blown out of proportion.... anyways, I love Christmas, Easter, and who is Horace?? I was never told about him. Someone please explain... I love getting presents for my kids, and easter baskets and stuff. The whole tooth fairy, I haven't got the pleasure of playing her yet. I love holidays. It just makes life a little better looking forward for those days of joy (plus paid holidays!!). I had a Jehova Witness come to my house a couple of Christmases ago, and tell me that celebrating holidays was of the devil and I was going to hell for celebrating it. Was she just mad because she sits alone during the holidays 'cause her family thinks she's nuts, while the people who celebrate it are having fun, smiling, and all lovey-dovey?? Of the devil..please, She was the devil. (Don't they not beleive in hell anyways??) I don't know...Anyways, I don't give a rats ass about lying to my kids about these mythical people. I'm sure they'll have some lies of their own later on, so we're already even. They'll figure it out. Anyone who doesn't beleive in holidays can keep that shit to themselves, and kiss my shiny white hiney if they want to bitch about it. Here's a quarter...call someone who cares.

10-09-2005, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikked

Golly. You were taught that Jesus was born on the 25th? If you do a little research, you'll find out that Bishop Julius I was the one who decreed we ought to celebrate the birth of Christ on that date. Before that, people in different areas were celebrating at different times.

Don’t you mean Liberius? And shouldn’t you, if you are going to be technical, give some credit to Constantine?

Oh, and thanks for reminding me of another facet of the fanatical arguments. Yours sound distinctly like those evangelized by the religious zealots who are absolutely disgusted with the bastardization of Christ by churches, and with the inbreeding of pagan ideals.

And the flip side being the furious pagans mad that the church took their Saturnalia, Thor’s Yule log, and the curative power of the mistletoe, and turned it all into some happy love day for a fat man in a red suit-a guy with a thorny crown-and it doesn’t matter how spiked the Nogg is, it’s no substitute for mistletoe.

The old, it’s mine, it’s mine, no it’s mine, no it’s the devils, it’s Thor’s, it’s God’s, it’s the Debil’s, it’s Saturn’s, no it’s mine argument.

Heard it.

And I’m saying...it’s ours.

...

Al, where did that Dennis Miller bit come on? I'd like to see it.

p.s. Wikked, on a softer note, a lot of denominations teach the actual history and origin of Christmas. And I'm curious, if you're Wicca, why are you going to church?

Empty_Purple_Stars · 10-10-2005, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikked

So the next time somebody attempts to stick a little Jesus into your "special" eggnog, tell them where to stick their Christmas tree- but let them know where it came from first!

Not to be smarmy or anything, but I do believe Wikked was in her own way, trying to expound upon your "I'm tired of hearing Xmas is for Christians Only" rant.

I realize there are those recently who have tried to throttle us with the May Pole, but I don't think she flows in that same vein..

Plus she likes to beat unsupecting grocery store clerks with Weedwhackers, so that makes her Uber Cool by default..

:P

On a side note, I find it COMPLETELY disheartening that it isn't even Halloween yet, but all the friggin retail stores have their Xmas items/decorations out for display/sale already..

Bah I say !

10-10-2005, 04:03 PM

I realize that now, and thanks, E_P_S, for the perspective. It’s delicate subject, as is apparent, and the tone I took was too…caustic. Sorry Wikked, one gets used to grilled meat after a time, and then it’s all one wants.

And yes, your points are true Wikked, aside from the wrong pope (though in your favor Saint Julius did try to have it recognized as the official date) and it was, honestly, the tone, not the content, which caused my jaws to ache.

Then of course, there is the deep seeded compulsion I have to argue and try to maintain some type of balance and semblance of unbiased every side representation, and since everyone was agreeing with me on some level…and I was still hankering for the taste of meat…and your post was the closest meat substitute, well aren’t I just the asshole.

Empty_Purple_Stars · 10-10-2005, 04:24 PM

No, you are the farthest thing from Asshole possible, Bard..

Besides Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays are MY DAYS to self-deprecate, remember??

edible_eye · 10-10-2005, 04:25 PM

well, if you're an asshole, then i'm an asshole also. shit (no pun intended), we could get together, bend over and toot-toot a few christmas tunes for the salvation army this year. i was also focused on a challenge and licking my chops with the anticipation of said meat-meal.

i didn't see wikked's post for what it was, i guess. so, for that, i apologize.

Empty_Purple_Stars · 10-10-2005, 04:44 PM

No, No, NO..

Nobody is an Asshole here..

Although I'll flip you guys a Bill to Bend over and toot-toot O Holy Night..

I just wanted to translate what she said, because I know sometimes, tone and content can be misunderstood. I have done it myself many times..

Plus with the rash of err "New Personalities" on the forum, it has been hard to discern the Wheat from the Chaff lately..

It's all good, now go practice for your perfomances..

I expect a Holy Show..

Courtenay1218 · 10-11-2005, 02:30 AM

Who the hell is HORACE???

AlKilyu · 10-13-2005, 11:11 PM

http://tinypic.com/ejvrqp.jpg

rockandrose · 12-01-2005, 06:38 AM

As young as I can remember, I never actually believed that Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy existed. However, I did convinced myself that such things existed in my imagination. Then again, my parents never actually told me about those mythical beings.

My childhood consisted of barbie dolls, playing dress-ups and watching playschool. I also remember when I was about four years old, listening to some kind of classical ballet music that I tuned on my radio.

Who is Great Pumpkin and Horace the Moonshine Guzzling-Revenue Dodging Pal?

rockandrose · 12-01-2005, 12:43 PM

I know who Charlie Brown is but I never much of their comics.

I know more about Garfield though.

12-01-2005, 01:37 PM

When I was a kid I used to visit my Grandma in Washington and my favorite thing to do was read her collections of Garfield books. She had dozens and I read them every year I went to visit. I never wanted to read Garfield any other time. I still don't, even though I havent visited her in over ten years

Lounar Wolf · 12-01-2005, 04:55 PM

My mum is totaly pissing me off. She won't tell any of that rubbish doesn't exist. My dad told me Santa didn't though. I've seen my dad put money under my step sisters and brothers pillows. I'm not a moron. ECK! I hate that rubbish.

rockandrose · 12-01-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manimal

When I was a kid I used to visit my Grandma in Washington and my favorite thing to do was read her collections of Garfield books. She had dozens and I read them every year I went to visit. I never wanted to read Garfield any other time. I still don't, even though I havent visited her in over ten years

I have a few Garfield comics and plush toys.

At one stage I become a bit obsessed with the character.

Lounar Wolf · 12-01-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xnguela

HOW old are you...?

Sorry thats my secret. I'm as old as Moonpaw.