Mall Shooting in Omaha

DepthsofSpace · 12-05-2007, 04:19 PM

Tragic. =( I'm just hoping he wasn't dressed in black.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120501868.html

OMAHA, Neb. -- A man opened fire with a rifle at a busy department store Wednesday, killing eight people before taking his own life, in an attack that made holiday shoppers run screaming through a mall and barricade themselves in dressing rooms. Five more people were wounded, two critically.

The gunman left a suicide note that was found at his home by his mother, said a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak. TV station KETV reported that the note said he wanted to "go out in style."

Witnesses said the gunman fired down on shoppers from a third-floor balcony of the Von Maur store. He was found dead on the third floor with a self-inflicted gunshot wound, and his victims were discovered on the second and third floors, police said.

"My knees rocked. I didn't know what to do, so I just ran with everybody else," said Kevin Kleine, 29, who was shopping with her 4-year-old daughter at the Westroads Mall, in a prosperous neighborhood on the city's west side. She said she hid in a dressing room with four other shoppers and an employee.

Sgt. Teresa Negron said the gunman killed eight people, then apparently killed himself. Authorities gave no motive for the attack and said they did not know whether he said anything during the rampage.

Police received a 911 call from someone inside the mall, and shots could be heard in the background, Negron said. By the time officers arrived six minutes later, the shooting was over, she said.

"Everybody was scared, and we didn't know what was going on," said Belene Esaw-Kagbara, 31, a Von Maur employee. "We didn't know what to do. I was praying that God protect us."

Mickey Vickory, who worked at Von Maur's third-floor service department, said she heard shots at about 1:50 p.m.

She and her co-workers and customers went into a back closet behind the wrapping room to hide, then emerged about a half-hour later when police shouted to come out with their hands up. As police took them to another part of the mall for safety, they saw the victims.

"We saw the bodies and we saw the blood," she said.

Keith Fidler, another Von Maur employee, said he heard a burst of five to six shots followed by 15 to 20 more rounds. Fidler said he huddled in the corner of the men's clothing department with about a dozen other employees until police yelled to get out of the store.

Magpie_Tendencies · 12-05-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DepthsofSpace

Tragic. =( I'm just hoping he wasn't dressed in black.

Apparently he was in camo gear.

I just find this whole thing incredibly tragic. Imaging going Christmas shopping with your family and coming home without your Parents/Sibling/Best Friend...

Graveyard.Crow · 12-05-2007, 06:14 PM

I was going to comment on the black thing too
But no I guess not this time. Sheesh what's with everyone shooting everyone? seriously!

AngelikDemonik · 12-06-2007, 11:39 AM

I hate to sound heartless...but I really do think that if Columbine wasn't so publicized, so many people wouldn't be getting these ideas to go shoot up schools, malls, etc.

It's horrible. It really makes me sad. You can't even go to a frickin' mall without the worry of some idiot whipping out a gun.

What has society came to? Why are people so hateful?

Mon Coeur Noir · 12-06-2007, 12:06 PM

I agree. It's sad. However, this isn't just a recent phenomena among the human race. People have ALWAYS been fuck-nuttaly violent. I mean, Hello! Anyone else remember Charles Whitman? It's just we didn't have CNN, and internet back in the day, so it wasn't such a common thing to hear about. There wasn't such a need to feed the 24 hr. news machine.

Methadrine · 12-06-2007, 12:07 PM

*quite happy that he lives in Europe... where we have serious gunlaws*

AngelikDemonik · 12-06-2007, 01:26 PM

We NEED hardcore gun laws here in the States.

I may be wrong, but I remember hearing somewhere that the human race is the only species of animal that PURPOSELY kills their own kind. I watch too much Discovery channel, so I might be confusing that with something...like squids...or something.

DepthsofSpace · 12-06-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methadrine

*quite happy that he lives in Europe... where we have serious gunlaws*

I'd rather have more armed people that might be able to shoot back, than dozens of helpless targets.

Right-to-carry permit saved a lot of people in the Utah shooting, when a firearm owning off-duty cop took him down.

I plan to get mine as soon as I turn 21, and take lots of good courses in proper firearm handling, so that I will never be a helpless victim.

DepthsofSpace · 12-06-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

I may be wrong, but I remember hearing somewhere that the human race is the only species of animal that PURPOSELY kills their own kind. I watch too much Discovery channel, so I might be confusing that with something...like squids...or something.

Only primate that does. Lots of other animals eat their own kind for various reasons.

Renatus · 12-06-2007, 05:49 PM

Yep I wouldn't mind owning a gun myself, but I would be more inclined towards antique guns. In particular the French LeMat Revolver but would settle for the time being for a modern reproduction. Unlike the ever famous six shooters these revolvers were 9 shooters and could fire buck shot, they were the M4A1 carbine with a M203 grenade launcher equiped of the 1800s. They saw good use in the confederate calvalry during the civil war.

AngelikDemonik · 12-06-2007, 07:17 PM

There's nothing wrong with owning a gun, as long as you're responsible and not emotionally unstable. But there needs to be stricter laws as to WHO can own a gun. People should be psycho-analyzed to see if they have the potential for well...going nuts and shooting people at random.

Example:
My ex boyfriend--Member of the United States Air Force Reserve, clean criminal record, educated, no history of drug use, works as a customs guard at the airport, has a CCW, and takes shooting classes a local gun range every week. Sounds fine, right? WRONG. One night, after the club, we were driving home--I was driving because he was drunk. He pulled out his gun, pointed it right at me and said "I'm going to shoot you". I replied with "No...you're not". He then pointed his gun at a passing fuel semi, and then said "Then I'm going to shoot that semi". He didn't end up shooting anything that night, and I broke up with him the next day, but regardless, HE IS CRAZY AND SHOULD NOT BE ANYWHERE NEAR A GUN. This guy has done more than that to me and other girls to warrant his craziness. He's dating a friend of mine's sister now, and she's too afraid to break up with him because he's threatened to kill her and her mother. We want to report him to his base, but we have no PHYSICAL proof he's done anything wrong--Not to mentioned, if he gets discharged from the service, I don't want him coming after me.

But I digress.

A criminal background check and waiting period has more than proven to be not enough. Granted, guns will still get into the hands of the wrong people by illegal means, but there are plently that get into the wrong hands by legal means, as well.

Renatus · 12-06-2007, 07:41 PM

Well your boyfriend was an unfortunate case that got through the loopholes, in general I think military personal can be trusted to handle guns. If you can't trust military personel with guns who can you trust. But again there are cases where people get through the screening process, like Dick Cheney.

Renatus · 12-06-2007, 07:52 PM

Bleh Dammit forgot to put an Ex before the boyfriend sorry about that.

le_revenant · 12-06-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mon Coeur Noir

Hello! Anyone else remember Charles Whitman?

Being from Texas, I do!
What they always leave out of the UT Austin shooting story, tho, is that because this is Texas (by God!) lots o' Texans went home during the shootin', got THEIR guns, came back, & started to return fire!!

Personally I feel a particular bloodlust towards any jerkoff who resorts to shooting up schools, malls, etc. & then decides to (equally) cowardly shoot himself dead. If he does that I say hack his corpse to pieces! Or at least deny its burial in consecrated ground. I'd scream bloody murder if the murderer of my loved ones was due to be buried in the same cemetery.

"Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

CptSternn · 12-07-2007, 07:50 AM

The problem with concealed permits is people don't really know much about them.

In Virginia, I had many mates who had them. In Virginia, you don't have to do anything other than sign up and they give you one. You show up in court, the judge asks why do you want it - they check your background - and the same day you now have a concealed weapons permit.

Here's the thing most people don't know -

Federal laws state you can't carry concealed weapons into various establishments and areas. You can't bring a concealed weapon into a bar, club, resutrant that serves alchol (including just beer), you can't have them within so many feet of a school, and many other stipulations.

Each state has more laws you also must abide by like in some states you can't bring it to a church or any church functions, etc.

Bottom line is if you have one, even if you have your license chances are wherever you are you are still breaking the law.

Now, the cops aren't going to arrest you if your not doing anything, that being said, they do have the right to put you in jail for 5 years in Virginia, as well as other states, and take your gun, the permit, and your license for breaking said laws.

So, where exactly are you going to carry it? Out to the mall? Many states fordid having them in public areas. Out on the weekends? Where are you going without alchol?

Sure, the cops aren't going to bust you without a reason, but now, for even a minor infraction they have you for five years if they want to prosecute.

Go to dinner with the family at the local TGIFridays - bring a gun and if your seen carrying it in (some random person notices it in your pants line) your now facing five years.

I had a mate who had that happen. They didn't put him in prison, but took the gun and gave him a $2,000 fine instead.

It's a quick way for the government to fine you for exercising your 'right'.

Get pulled over coming home from the supermarket with a gun in the car - have a 6 pack in the boot - thats a fine and loss of your gun.

Lots of ways they get you on this. They like to punish people who have concealed weapons. This is how it is in Virginia.

Also, when your pulled for a traffic stop - the cops computer screen at dispatch and in their car puts a BIG RED FLASHING BAR across it saying OWNER OF CONEALED WEAPONS PERMIT - so when you get pulled in your car for a simple traffic stop, they do a felony approach - guns drawn, come up to the windoe and ask you put your weapon out first.

As I said, you might be able to get such a permit, but the cops make it a real pain in the arse to have one...

Renatus · 12-07-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Also, when your pulled for a traffic stop - the cops computer screen at dispatch and in their car puts a BIG RED FLASHING BAR across it saying OWNER OF CONEALED WEAPONS PERMIT - so when you get pulled in your car for a simple traffic stop, they do a felony approach - guns drawn, come up to the windoe and ask you put your weapon out first.

As I said, you might be able to get such a permit, but the cops make it a real pain in the arse to have one...

Do you know how the police handle a soldier with a concealed weapon? Or in general the limitations on soldiers with weapons. Are soldiers under 21 allowed to keep handguns? I did a bit of research into this myself last night and it mentioned another stipulation on how you're supposed to keep it encased and unloaded. Though like I said I couldn't find much info on the special conditions for military personel only that they were exempt from certain parts of the laws though never specified. I presume the concealed weapon encased and unloaded part applies, but do you need all the same permits. I'll try and look into the army website to see if there is info there.

AngelikDemonik · 12-07-2007, 12:53 PM

Well...one time I was in the car with my ex, and the cops decided to pull up right behind me with their lights on--We were in park, late at night--Just talking. My ex got of my car and told the officer "There is a loaded gun in the car, I have my CCW, and I am a member of the United States Air Force", and then proceeded to pull out his CCW liscense and his Military ID. The cop still ran my driver's liscence and my plates and then pretty much called me a whore, and then went off on his way.

As for cilivians, I have no idea how carrying a loaded gun with a CCW would go when stopped by police officer. I'm not sure if it was different because he was in the military or not.

raggedyanne · 12-07-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

We NEED hardcore gun laws here in the States.

I may be wrong, but I remember hearing somewhere that the human race is the only species of animal that PURPOSELY kills their own kind. I watch too much Discovery channel, so I might be confusing that with something...like squids...or something.

You are correct. It's just sick. We need stricter gun laws and we also need to stop publicizing gun crimes like this. It inspires too many copycat acts.

DepthsofSpace · 12-07-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

Well...one time I was in the car with my ex, and the cops decided to pull up right behind me with their lights on--We were in park, late at night--Just talking. My ex got of my car and told the officer "There is a loaded gun in the car, I have my CCW, and I am a member of the United States Air Force", and then proceeded to pull out his CCW liscense and his Military ID. The cop still ran my driver's liscence and my plates and then pretty much called me a whore, and then went off on his way.

As for cilivians, I have no idea how carrying a loaded gun with a CCW would go when stopped by police officer. I'm not sure if it was different because he was in the military or not.

Depends if you are politically active or not. A lot of ex-cops/military have a CCW and they are fine, but I've know of several politically active libertarians with CCWs that are pulled over constantly and there have been cases where such people have be nearly shot (I seem to recall a couple of shootings with black men who had CCWs) because they begin the proper "I am carrying a weapon" and the officer freaks out and draws his weapon. If you cause trouble for the system, or fit a demographic (I wonder about a Goth with a CCW...) you might want to be extra careful...

In New Hampshire, it is nice. Open carry and CCW on a shall-issue basis by a civilian review board. I would like guns out of the hands of nuts, but still. What do you do when they consider you a nut because of your opinions? I'm leery of giving Government that right.

The purpose of gun rights has nothing to do with hunting. It's all about self-defense, mainly from the most dangerous criminal organization in the world...

AngelikDemonik · 12-07-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DepthsofSpace

Depends if you are politically active or not. A lot of ex-cops/military have a CCW and they are fine, but I've know of several politically active libertarians with CCWs that are pulled over constantly and there have been cases where such people have be nearly shot (I seem to recall a couple of shootings with black men who had CCWs) because they begin the proper "I am carrying a weapon" and the officer freaks out and draws his weapon. If you cause trouble for the system, or fit a demographic (I wonder about a Goth with a CCW...) you might want to be extra careful...

In New Hampshire, it is nice. Open carry and CCW on a shall-issue basis by a civilian review board. I would like guns out of the hands of nuts, but still. What do you do when they consider you a nut because of your opinions? I'm leery of giving Government that right.

The purpose of gun rights has nothing to do with hunting. It's all about self-defense, mainly from the most dangerous criminal organization in the world...

My ex was goth...who definately isn't helping peoples' opinion of Gothic people, in general.

I'm not sure if political opinions would matter on a pyscho-analtyic test.

Metabolik · 12-07-2007, 01:40 PM

I heard about this on the news...it's sad when someone gets driven over the edge like that, his girlfriend left him, he was abandoned by his family and friends, he was rejected by the army and then got fired from McDonalds...I mean thats rough man...And the familys of the people who died...this makes me sad.

Renatus · 12-07-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

Well...one time I was in the car with my ex, and the cops decided to pull up right behind me with their lights on--We were in park, late at night--Just talking. My ex got of my car and told the officer "There is a loaded gun in the car, I have my CCW, and I am a member of the United States Air Force", and then proceeded to pull out his CCW liscense and his Military ID. The cop still ran my driver's liscence and my plates and then pretty much called me a whore, and then went off on his way.

As for cilivians, I have no idea how carrying a loaded gun with a CCW would go when stopped by police officer. I'm not sure if it was different because he was in the military or not.

Now that suprised me, the civilian laws are very clear about making sure the gun is not loaded except under special circumstances.