Nihilism

[knightmare]

I'm pretty sure I know what feces is. But I contend the presence of crap is different in art than dadaism due to the artist's motives.
Also, I think that the whole point of dadaism is to make art without limits.
Since art is subjective, I don't see how dadaism contradicts art rather than lowering its value in society.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Haha, I didn't mean the "shit is still shit" in a simple literary way.
Shit is both feces and a derogatory term. I'm both asserting a logical A=A argument and decry shit by using the same term in its derogatory form.

[knightmare]

Yes, but its meaning as a derogatory term is based on its association with human excrement. So I don't see how the logical A=A argument can be separated from derogatory meaning, unless you change the definition of the term.

The term has different meanings based on the person or culture involved. For example, in the gangster phrase, "That car is the shit", its original meaning, its original meaning is lost, and is instead used a metaphor of praise.

So is dadaim endorsing multiplicity of cultures and meanings?

Also, this is the most enlightening discussion I ever had on crap.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by knightmare

The term has different meanings based on the person or culture involved. For example, in the gangster phrase, "That car is the shit", its original meaning, its original meaning is lost, and is instead used a metaphor of praise.

Haha, good point.

[Mick Ignis]

I often use "shit", "fuck", and "damn" as an exclamation point or to make a word more powerful. "FUCK!" or "That's fuckin' great!".

[Minyaliel]

I must agree with Jillian in this case (surprising as it might seem); I believe there is essentially no meaning of life and our existence, except the one we make for ourselves. Every individual should make up their own moral code. "Treat others as they treat you" has always worked for me.

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Isn't that just beautiful?
Or am I the only one who sees the beauty in a meaningless, irrational, empty existence?
There is no lovelier rose than that which grows and fades away without an observer to its beauty.

Now THAT is Goth!

And Mick: I agree, in fact I find enjoyment at very low and "simple" levels, because there is innate complexity even for a roach as you say (funny illustration of your point! ).
In my case, although some may tire of my use of simple metaphors or even "cliches", these expressions continue to describe beautiful and complex ideas to me. A rose is no less beautiful for being commonplace. Nor are people. But I appreciate complexity too (I am learning calculus, so I may understand the higher order complexities in a beam of light, of which there are many).

[Slap Your Love]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Isn't that just beautiful?
Or am I the only one who sees the beauty in a meaningless, irrational, empty existence?
There is no lovelier rose than that which grows and fades away without an observer to its beauty.

I think that's very beautiful. <3 I was first introduced to Nihilism through the lyrics and style of a couple of song's by the band Tiamat. Although they don't speak of Nihilism influences up front their songs do it for them. Such as the song `A Deeper Kind of Slumber`. Although I don't follow Nihilism much at all, I still think it a beautiful thing, not a destructive thing that most people view it as.

[Cicero]

Deep down, my beliefs are very close to those of a Nihilist. The difference is that I'm terrified of those beliefs, so I'm still searching for something else. Meaninglessness terrifies me.

[Pyre]

I have to side with Mick. I believe that there is no beauty without meaning.

I look for complexity in simple matters, constantly. It's a fault of mine. I over analyze, I exaggerate, I search out meaning. Though I feel my life and existence entirely void of meaning, I still try to think optimistically about it. Nihilism would be more the answer to apathy, at least to me. I am difficult; everything must have meaning, regardless of how meaningless it may seem to others. This is why I often get upset with people, because constantly I work to do things that mean something, and I am never without a cause. Many people don't realize or understand this way of thinking and living for me.
Nihilism is my complete opposite.

[Mick Ignis]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

And Mick: I agree, in fact I find enjoyment at very low and "simple" levels, because there is innate complexity even for a roach as you say (funny illustration of your point! ).

Look forward to a stop-motion cartoon that's shows exactly what a roach is thinking, and what it does in it's spare time!

[LostAndCrazy]

There is meaning to all of this, it has just gotten lost over time and been miscreated since.

[BLEED REBELION!!!]

i think humans could live without a government or some one to force rules onto them ( without burning eachother on stakes) . although there would have to be some changes, we could try to teachthe next generation to think differently , like philosiphists . teach them that you shouldnt try to force your beliefs onto others. plain and simple dont be a dick head. and the government has many ways of infringeing on my rights and those of people like me and trying to act like thier not its a bunch of bull.

[BLEED REBELION!!!]

im so bored

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by BLEED REBELION!!!

im so bored

And that has everything to do with this thread.
But I might be able to salvage the theme of this thread yet:
Speaking from a Nihilist point of view, if you are bored, there's no reason why you should stay alive.

[knightmare]

How about reproduction and the selfish gene? Imagine if our ancestors quit because they were bored. (even though that's unlikey since they mated at a drop of a loincloth)

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by knightmare

How about reproduction and the selfish gene? Imagine if our ancestors quit because they were bored. (even though that's unlikey since they mated at a drop of a loincloth)

Haha, I was only being harshly brusque in my response. It's not a good enough reason to me, but boredom is an absolutely good enough reason to kill oneself if life has no meaning.
If you're not enjoying yourself, why keep living and keep boring yourself?

[knightmare]

If life has no meaning, then how can one not be bored? I believe everything has a will to live or a will to power (Nietzsche). I think that it is impossible for one to be a true nihilist.
Oh, and it's your fault in part. If you are bored, just go to Camden, I was never bored there in my university community service.

[HumanePain]

I think any intelligent person can solve boredom easily, as Mick said there is complexity even in the life of a roach. If I was stranded in the desert, I would have fun looking at the cactus, the insects and even the rocks! (quartz for example can be quite beautiful) And the stars in the night desert sky are awesome.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I have to say that my last posts were tongue-in-cheek.
Which reminds me:
"Your Nihilism is meaningless! (no pun intended)"

[HumanePain]

Or it could be a compliment to a Goth with a hidden insult:
"You are SO Nilhilist!"

[Circle V]

Originally Posted by BLEED REBELION!!!

I was just wondering what every one though of nihilism. when it comes to the morality aspect of it i dont real think that there is one true morality.people should make up thier own rules thier own code of ethics and then attempt to live by them instead of the morals of others being imposed onto you. I dont think anything is truly evil or good i believe thats a distinction humans make a way of trying to make yourself seem more rght by saying something eles is wrong. Every thing just plain and simply is.as for reality i think there are multitudes of them. every person lives in there own reality that is different from the next whether the difference is small or gigantic. its impossible to say something is always this or that way because there is always an exception to the rule always a what if.

What the author of the thread refers to, I believe, could probably be better defined as existentialism.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Indeed. HumanePain had also said the same thing. But even if BLEEDREBELLION got it wrong, let's discuss about Nihilism.
Existensialism is rather boring and fictitious to the point of being almost an obsolete view of life. (in my oppinion, that is)

[Circle V]

I'd say the same about nihilism. While the idea that 'nothing matters' is properly edgy and dark, it denies and detracts from the enjoyment of life. Human beings are absolutely incapable of fully embracing nihilism.

On the other hand, everyone practices existentialism to some extent. The idea that each person can define their own goals and beliefs is central to most modern societies.

[HumanePain]

Just becasue the Universe is meaningless, doesn't mean it isn't beautiful. Or is that still Existensialist, because "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?

Nilhilism explains a lot of facts we observe:

ants get stepped on, while crawling on this mudball called earth.

Cute bunnies get eaten by coyotes.

children die from random disease and starvation.

So all of the above points towards meaninglessness, which as our dear Cicero said, is scary. I adhere to a faith, but find it difficult to refute the facts (or even to rationalize them) with faith alone. Meaninglessness seems to be more logical.