Why do people insist on perpetuating religious intolerance?

[Porphyria]

I have to say something... something that's probably going to get me flamed by who the fuck ever, but it has to be said anyway.

Lots of people have this idea that one particular religious view is "right" while every other point of view is "wrong." I find the entire concept that anyone can be "right" about anything having to do with the metaphysical world (or lack thereof) completely absurd. How arrogant do you have to be to think what you happen to believe is better than what anyone else believes? Does God come over to your house to play cards and reveal the secrets of the universe on Saturday nights? Does Krishna pop out of your Cheerios every morning and update you on the undeniable truths of the cosmos? No! Everyone is just guessing because that's all anyone can do.

I'm not against religion. In fact, I think it's healthy to have something to believe in. I'm just against the idea that, if there is some kind ultimate truth out there, stupid cattle like us actually understand it well enough to be able to explain it as what's "right." People have been killing each other over this bullshit for ages. You'd think we'd have outgrown this childishness at some point.

And the atheists are just as bad. It's completely fine if you don't believe in anything. But that doesn't give you the right to preach your point of view with the same dickish, arrogant attitude as Pat Robertson. You don't have to be religious to express religious intolerance. Why is it so important to the atheists to convince everyone else that they're "right"? They should know better.

Religion is really just a selection of people's best attempts to figure everything out. I think religious beliefs should be a personal thing and not open to criticism. Why is everyone so concerned about what everyone else believes when the only thing that should really matter is what they personally believe? Is it so hard to be satisfied with your own ideas about everything and leave everyone else alone? And since it's all conjecture to begin with, how is it something that can even be debated?

People are so fucking frustrating.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Porphyria

You don't have to be religious to express religious intolerance.

That's pretty much the definition of religious intolerance.
How could you be, say, a Nazi optimist without being a Nazi?
Maybe we're religion intolerant, but it's dumb to say people without religion can have religious intolerance.
As for the point of your thread, what you're talking about is religious exclusivity, which makes perfect sense to me.
The universe is a One. It's idiotic to think everyone's opinions are equally right.
Either God's favorite color is red or it's not.
I find it stupid that people believe they have a right to believe whatever they damn well please just because it's their beliefs.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Porphyria

And since it's all conjecture to begin with, how is it something that can even be debated?

Everything scientific is nothing but conjecture.
Your point will stand its ground when you never talk about such things as gravity, evolution, subatomic particles, life, tectonic plates, supernovas, mental illness...

[Godslayer Jillian]

I'm sorry to post three consecutive posts, but I have to say I do agree with your first paragraph, and I also have to say that it justifies the atheist stubbornness regarding religion.
You yourself said it's absurd for people to believe their religion is right just because they say so. I loved that you said it's not like 'God come[s] over to [their] house to play cards and reveal the secrets of the universe on Saturday nights'. They have nothing to prove their beliefs.
Hell, it's not even 'just guessing' [sic]. They're just making it up as they go.
So, with all that arrogance and lack of evidence, can you blame us from bitching about the problems and errors of religion?

[Anguelon]

I can't agree more with you guys. Christians are sure that Jesus is the son of God. Muslims believe that Mohammed is the real prophet after Jesus whereas Chrisitans claim that Mohammed is the "crook Jesus". Jews are still waiting for the Messiah. The charade goes on and on. It is Un-Christian, Un-Muslim, Un-Jewish, Un-Whatever-Faith-You-Are-Part-Of to trash others' faiths, beliefs or philosophies. I had a friend who is an Atheist who kept pushing her beliefs every time she came to my place. Now, I'm Catholic and I don't have a halo over my head but it is really annoying and disrespectful when someone pushes his or her beliefs in your own house. Don't get me started with the Jehovah's Witnesses!
I really appreciate the fact that you brought up this subject. I personally can't accept , for example, marrying a Muslim for it's a sin in the Roman Catholic Church to marry other than of your own but it doesn't mean that I have to push my faith everywhere I go. It's just wrong. We have a neighbor who's a Baptist and she's a Jesus' Freak. I mean, what gives? What's with the constant preaching? Christians and Muslims can't be put in one room here in Lebanon. They both consider themselves right. That's what started the war in the first place. It's a load of bull if someone says that it's Syria's dictator intervention or the palestinians. It's all the bull about not being able to tolerate each other's religion! I give you guys a big pat on the back. If people thought like you, maybe the world would be a less sicker place to live in.

[Graveyard.Crow]

If you look at every religion, you can find at least one similarity that goes for all of them.
Anyway that's kind of off topic. Yes it's sad, yes atheists are just as bad. But what are you going to do?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Anguelon

I personally can't accept , for example, marrying a Muslim for it's a sin in the Roman Catholic Church to marry other than of your own but it doesn't mean that I have to push my faith everywhere I go.

You don't have to push anyone a step down. You're still placing yourself one step upwards with this mentality.
This may not be religious intolerance, but it's religious chauvinism, which is worse.

[Anguelon]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

You don't have to push anyone a step down. You're still placing yourself one step upwards with this mentality.
This may not be religious intolerance, but it's religious chauvinism, which is worse.

I said: "for example". I was using an example and a supporting idea. Please read thoroughly. Thank you. I still think your comments are nice though.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Well, that's not much better. As you said "I personally", I assume that it's a fact.
And as you remarked the "for example" part, what it tells me is that this is just one example of real personal biased decisions based on religion.

[Anguelon]

*shredding the rhetoric book*
*desperately crying*
*Now, pouting with a tear: "I used commas".*
*Anguelon is now searching for a cookie at her darkside*

[Godslayer Jillian]

That reminds me, I have to learn what rhetoric and dialectic mean. :P
But see, what I mean is that you believe marrying a 'non-believer' is a sin and that's just wrong. That's a religious bias.
You sort of justified it because you did state that it is your church the one that said it is a sin, but you are the one following that dogma.

[Anguelon]

*Anguelon sighs*
Look, I hate pink. I can't stand the color. I hate colors. I love black. Now, my best friend who's a typical blonde in every sense (meaning my opposite) wears colors, pink, ummm...the whole nine yards. Despite that, I love it on her and would never change her for the world. If my sister were to marry someone from a different religion, I wouldn't mind as long as she is happy. I was vegan for many years but I never made my meat-eating friends uncomfortable. I am a neat freak and never made my messy friends uncomfortable. You see what I'm getting at? This is a rhetoric situation. I don't like hairy men and my husband, the love of my life, is hairy. I married him and would never change him. He was a monk and he is very religious and I'm not. I still would never change him. He's Maronite (middle eastern christians part of the Catholic church) and I'm not. He comes from an area I totally despise. See, anybody can put stupid differences such as mine aside. I'd be a moron not to. I'd be a moron not to be friends with people of different backgrounds. I'd be unhumane. I'm just explaining a simple idea which unfortunately many people in this world will never accept. It's a shame.

[KontanKarite]

*opens door, sees messs, rolls eyes, walks out*

[October_Night]

Originally Posted by Anguelon

I can't agree more with you guys. Christians are sure that Jesus is the son of God. Muslims believe that Mohammed is the real prophet after Jesus whereas Chrisitans claim that Mohammed is the "crook Jesus". Jews are still waiting for the Messiah. The charade goes on and on. It is Un-Christian, Un-Muslim, Un-Jewish, Un-Whatever-Faith-You-Are-Part-Of to trash others' faiths, beliefs or philosophies. I had a friend who is an Atheist who kept pushing her beliefs every time she came to my place. Now, I'm Catholic and I don't have a halo over my head but it is really annoying and disrespectful when someone pushes his or her beliefs in your own house. Don't get me started with the Jehovah's Witnesses!

Thank you.

[Anguelon]

Herzlich Wilkommen!

[Porphyria]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I find it stupid that people believe they have a right to believe whatever they damn well please just because it's their beliefs.

That's pretty much the definition of religious intolerance. By definition, the phrase refers to a fierce unwillingness to accept any religious viewpoint other that one's own. Rejection of religion is still a religious veiwpoint.

It's idiotic to think everyone's opinions are equally right.

No one's opinion is right. Everyone's opinions are equally opinions.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Porphyria

Rejection of religion is still a religious veiwpoint.

Why? Why is a non-religious opinion about religion a religious viewpoint?
The contradiction in that is so clear.

No one's opinion is right.

That's an opinion, ergo, it's wrong (?)

[Porphyria]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Why? Why is a non-religious opinion about religion a religious viewpoint?
The contradiction in that is so clear.

I hate to split hairs over a word, but I'm going to have to. The definition of the adjective "religious" is "of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion." A rejection of religion is still "of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion," and is therefore "religious" in nature. Ergo, intolerance toward any or all religious beliefs systems, regardless of whether the intolerance is brought about by a specific faith-based bias or by a lack of belief in anything, is still religious intolerance.

That's an opinion, ergo, it's wrong (?)

It's an opinion.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Porphyria

intolerance toward any or all religious beliefs systems, regardless of whether the intolerance is brought about by a specific faith-based bias or by a lack of belief in anything, is still religious intolerance.

Yeah, you're right.

It's an opinion.

But then what authority does it have?

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Yeah, you're right.
But then what authority does it have?

On what authority does anyone have to struggle so hard to prove everyone else wrong or right? The betterment of mankind? A total religious rule, since I figure that's your main reason for your "struggle" or discontent with religion (the atrocities of said things), would be a depressing thing. But, an atheistic rule would ALSO be a depressing thing. How do you say, the ones who have beliefs under an athiest rule would more than likely be treated as if they had mental conditions. But we're not talking about who's in control.

*sigh* So hard to live and let live w/o being condescending on both sides it seems. *shrugs*

I still love ya, Jilly.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

On what authority does anyone have to struggle so hard to prove everyone else wrong or right?

Truth.
That's why I do it; and that's why religious exclusivists do it. And you know what? I prefer religious exclusivists to religious pluralists.
It's stupid to say no opinion is right, for that's an opinion in itself.
It's stupid to say all paths lead to the same place, when there are opposite directions; let alone that it nullifies the belief of free will.
It's stupid to say that exclusivists are arbitrary when there's no proof of anything pluralists say. They just want to be left alone and be allowed to believe they're right. Exclusivists at least will fight for their convictions because they know that if they lose against reasoning, they were wrong in something all along.
It's stupid to say all opinions are equally valid because we can't really be sure for certain. How many times do we have to repeat the teapot argument before it means something to believers?
Are we to respect a belief that there's a tiny teapot orbiting Jupiter just because it cannot be disproved? That's fucking stupid.
The logic behind it is so simple and direct, that I can only see a close-minded person not grasping it.

How do you say, the ones who have beliefs under an athiest rule would more than likely be treated as if they had mental conditions.

The people that have a mental condition in today's society are also treated like they have a mental condition. Religion is a mental condition. Both Freud and Jung agreed. Freud called religion a social neurosis.

[KontanKarite]

*sigh*

So be it.

[KontanKarite]

http://www.themiracleman.org/index2.htm

Just thought I'd throw this out there. *shrugs* It was probably faked anyway. I doubt it really has anything to do with "God" per se', but in a way... if this is true, people themselves are at least capable of things we don't exactly give ourselves credit for.

I dunno, the whole... Atheism vs. Religion thing... I don't really care that much. I like to stay open minded about things because though the evidence may be clear that there is no god or higher power, one can still hope. But then again, I'm not a very strong person anyway. I guess I still need my boogymen and gods for some rhyme or reason. Maybe someday I'll have no use for them.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I also think humans are capable of more than we give ourselves credit for.
I've seen some incredible shit from 'miracle healers'.
But I have no idea how it happens and it would be extremely arrogant of my part to attribute such phenomena to the biblical god. Just because the faith healer says he got his powers from the tetragrammation doesn't make it true. If it were, meditation wouldn't work.
You mentioned staying open-minded, and that's good (although there are some things that would be stupid to be open-minded about, like the teapot); what gets on my nerves is the people that use the argument that there's the slight possibility that their god does exist and call themselves more open-minded than atheists because they trust on that small chance.
Trusting on a 1/64 chance is not more open-minded than trusting a 38/64 chance! It's the opposite of open-mindedness!

[Godslayer Jillian]

Adding to what I said:
If someone believes there might be a higher power or something, fine; it's not that bad.
But when said person begins to arbitrarily assign attributes to his deity without any proof of it, then you know that he has stopped being rational. Surely he cannot be open-minded when he's just making something up and calling it absolute as he goes.