Gothic.net Upgrades You Would Like?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Rosie

I never said that. You're purposely trying to make me out to be selfish based on my views on one thing. You have no interest in who's wrong or right, only what clever little trites you can shoot out to make yourself feel more justified. GTFO is that's all you're in this thread to do. I was told to appeal in a more respectful manner so that's what I'm dong. But I still think the restrictions on PMs are insanely stupid.

Well, there are quite a few things wrong here. First of all, I do care about what's right and wrong--please don't try to tell me what I'm thinking, it's just silly.

Secondly...you say you're appealing in a more respectful manner because you were told to?
A) Aim for respect from the get go
B) Don't bitch for weeks about us being slaves to this "authoritarian" admin and then go ahead and do things in a respectful manner because you "were told to"

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Well, there are quite a few things wrong here. First of all, I do care about what's right and wrong--please don't try to tell me what I'm thinking, it's just silly.

Secondly...you say you're appealing in a more respectful manner because you were told to?
A) Aim for respect from the get go
B) Don't bitch for weeks about us being slaves to this "authoritarian" admin and then go ahead and do things in a respectful manner because you "were told to"

I was right to bitch about it because it's exactly what's going on. And if you care about right and wrong, you have a pretty poor view of right and wrong, especially one that isn't rooted in the slightest in logic as your BAM reply in the other thread shows.
If you don't have anything to add to this thread, just GTFO.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Rosie

I was right to bitch about it because it's exactly what's going on. And if you care about right and wrong, you have a pretty poor view of right and wrong, especially one that isn't rooted in the slightest in logic as your BAM reply in the other thread shows.
If you don't have anything to add to this thread, just GTFO.

Do you not grasp that not everyone believes as you believe?

[Rosie]

Do you not grasp the idea of utility, and that not everything is subjective?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Rosie

Do you not grasp the idea of utility, and that not everything is subjective?

I grasp both, but don't see how subjectiveness is relevant.

Could you now answer my question?

[Rosie]

No. I already defended the utility of my view in the other thread several times and you didn't listen. Go away.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Rosie

No. I already defended the utility of my view in the other thread several times and you didn't listen. Go away.

Too bad I didn't ask about utility, I asked about subjectivity.

And please don't tell me to go away. After all, your whole argument is that this is A PUBLIC FORUM.
So quick to be hypocritical.

[Rosie]

It's a public forum, but you're still trolling. I never said everything you could possibly do on a forum was fair, or else my argument would come full circle with regards moderation anyway. So quick to call someone hypocritical without realising this.

[Delkaetre]

Rosie, Ophelia... is it possible to take this rant elsewhere?
I know that I snarled back at G.Net for offering what I felt to be poor excuses, but you've created an argument that really could be had elsewhere instead of dragging this thread down. I don't usually object to threads moving off-topic- sometimes it's very interesting- but this is a stickied thread that should be useful to all members, and doesn't seem like quite the place for an argument with other members.
I'm not trying to target either of you, please don't feel I am- I'd have this same response to anyone.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Rosie, Ophelia... is it possible to take this rant elsewhere?
I know that I snarled back at G.Net for offering what I felt to be poor excuses, but you've created an argument that really could be had elsewhere instead of dragging this thread down. I don't usually object to threads moving off-topic- sometimes it's very interesting- but this is a stickied thread that should be useful to all members, and doesn't seem like quite the place for an argument with other members.
I'm not trying to target either of you, please don't feel I am- I'd have this same response to anyone.

I don't feel targeted at all, and I'd like this argument to end, too, especially now that Rosie knows it's pointless. She already discussed it with the admin, why continue it?

[Cyntrox]

Seems like you best continue this argument in PMs.

[Methadrine]

A "todays posts" button when logged in would be an upgrade I'd like. As it is now we just get "new posts" as a total replacement when logged in, but I'd like to be able to see the whole days thread without having to resort to logging out.

[Delkaetre]

There's an idea! Seconded! (so I don't get things from two days ago when I log in after a day or two away)

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Rosie, Ophelia... is it possible to take this rant elsewhere?
I know that I snarled back at G.Net for offering what I felt to be poor excuses, but you've created an argument that really could be had elsewhere instead of dragging this thread down. I don't usually object to threads moving off-topic- sometimes it's very interesting- but this is a stickied thread that should be useful to all members, and doesn't seem like quite the place for an argument with other members.
I'm not trying to target either of you, please don't feel I am- I'd have this same response to anyone.

I agree it shouldn't be here at all. There's already another thread on the more aggressive side of complaining, but Ophelia dragged it in here.

But this is another fantastic example why there should be PMs - so personal disputes don't overspill onto the boards.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Rosie

I agree it shouldn't be here at all. There's already another thread on the more aggressive side of complaining, but Ophelia dragged it in here.

But this is another fantastic example why there should be PMs - so personal disputes don't overspill onto the boards.

I made lemon cookies, want some?

[Gothic.net]

Originally Posted by Rosie

But this is another fantastic example why there should be PMs - so personal disputes don't overspill onto the boards.

Honestly, We'd sometimes rather have visibility to the debate. Maybe someone makes a compelling argument for or against a given feature. A debate in the PM doesn't do any real good when it comes to adjusting site features. We had PM turned completely off for a long time. We brought them back for regular active participants on a trial basis. This is a public forum for public discussion. If the only thing people are interested in PMs for are useless unproductive bickering, I don't see the need for the feature at all.

[Lapin]

^ See, what I heard when I read that, was essentially "Either get along or I take away your toys."

So can we please stop?

[Gothic.net]

Originally Posted by Lapin

^ See, what I heard when I read that, was essentially "Either get along or I take away your toys."

So can we please stop?

There was no threat. Just a communication of values and goals. PM seems kind of pointless and if it's being used to perpetuate arguments that probably don't need to take place at all, well, it's just not winning a bid to expand the feature. I'm not talking to people here as though they are children, so having that sort of childish message be the only thing you take away from the input is disconcerting.

[Lapin]

I'm sorry, and if I caused disconcertation on your part, I'm very sorry indeed. I was worried and I misinterpreted.

[Gothic.net]

Originally Posted by Lapin

I'm sorry, and if I caused disconcertation on your part, I'm very sorry indeed. I was worried and I misinterpreted.

Don't worry about it. It's no big thing. We just want to make an effort to direct the PM discussion into a slightly more mature realm, as well as explain some of our perspective and philosophy on the subject.

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Gothic.net

Honestly, We'd sometimes rather have visibility to the debate. Maybe someone makes a compelling argument for or against a given feature. A debate in the PM doesn't do any real good when it comes to adjusting site features. We had PM turned completely off for a long time. We brought them back for regular active participants on a trial basis. This is a public forum for public discussion. If the only thing people are interested in PMs for are useless unproductive bickering, I don't see the need for the feature at all.

First off, even if it was, at least it'd be kept off the forums. Why does visibility matter that much?

I want PMs so I can contact people I used to talk to off board a long time ago, one or two of them changed their AIM but since I drifted away I don't have them anymore. And also, if there's anyone I'm interested in talking to now, I'd want to talk to them privately away from this. There's a couple of people I "Missed" in my time away I would have liked to have gotten to have known, as they seem a lot more interesting than the current crowd. I live in Ireland, and goths are rare as oil reserves here. It's hard to get to meet IRL.

People who haven't logged in in months will be notified they have a new PM, whereas obviously won't see any attempts to contact them via the board.

Posting AIM, MSN etc. isn't a good idea. Nearly every other board supports this feature. There are countless reasons to have the PM function I'm not sure where to start. Why don't you ask yourselves why this is one of the only boards in existence that puts such restrictions on the feature?

If it's just the flick of a switch, you may as well do it, even if it only really benefits one person.

[Breathless Horror]

I want the ability to send electric shocks through the computer to jolt the trolls that keep showing up! We can do that, can't we?

[Gothic.net]

Originally Posted by Rosie

First off, even if it was, at least it'd be kept off the forums. Why does visibility matter that much?

If people are arguing for a policy change, it seems logical that they would want to have that argument where people who could make the change could see it.

Originally Posted by Rosie

I want PMs so I can contact people I used to talk to off board a long time ago, one or two of them changed their AIM but since I drifted away I don't have them anymore. And also, if there's anyone I'm interested in talking to now, I'd want to talk to them privately away from this. There's a couple of people I "Missed" in my time away I would have liked to have gotten to have known, as they seem a lot more interesting than the current crowd. I live in Ireland, and goths are rare as oil reserves here. It's hard to get to meet IRL.

If you went to a party and people you wanted to see were not there and hadn't been in a long time, would it be reasonable to demand that the host give you a key to their office and rolodex so you could rifle through and find what served you? Would it be reasonable if they said you could have what you wanted but you'd have to hang out and be sociable for a bit, but you refused?

Originally Posted by Rosie

People who haven't logged in in months will be notified they have a new PM, whereas obviously won't see any attempts to contact them via the board.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

Originally Posted by Rosie

Posting AIM, MSN etc. isn't a good idea. Nearly every other board supports this feature. There are countless reasons to have the PM function I'm not sure where to start. Why don't you ask yourselves why this is one of the only boards in existence that puts such restrictions on the feature?

And? This is not the only board that doesn't give trolls access to PMs. We've explained our policy and perspective. Frankly, you don't seem interested in participating in a friendly pleasant tone and we're simply unlikely to capitulate just because you are crying in the cereal isle about not getting your fruit loops.

Originally Posted by Rosie

If it's just the flick of a switch, you may as well do it, even if it only really benefits one person.

It's not that you can't have what you want because it's too difficult to give it to you, it's because you don't deserve it.

[Rosie]

If you went to a party and people you wanted to see were not there and hadn't been in a long time, would it be reasonable to demand that the host give you a key to their office and rolodex so you could rifle through and find what served you? Would it be reasonable if they said you could have what you wanted but you'd have to hang out and be sociable for a bit, but you refused?

Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous example for anything I've ever heard. The only comparable situation is
getting an email address of an old friend you hadn't talked to in a while, off another friend. How the hell is PMing someone rifling through their personal stuff? All it's doing is dropping them a message. They have the ability to refuse to answer if they so wish, it's very rude, but they can still do so. Recieving a PM does not expose any personal information about that person or affect them negatively.

Also, I have pretty bad Aspergers, so please don't make such comments about being "sociable", I wouldn't "refuse" to do so, it'd just happen.

And? This is not the only board that doesn't give trolls access to PMs. We've explained our policy and perspective. Frankly, you don't seem interested in participating in a friendly pleasant tone and we're simply unlikely to capitulate just because you are crying in the cereal isle about not getting your fruit loops.

And taking such a patronising tone is supposed to help wonders? In a logical argument, you make points, not poor comparisons.

I'm sorry, but anyone who uses the WHINING BECAUSE THEY DON'T GET WHAT THEY WANT needs to take a step back and rethink their poor arguing. Such goads are nothing more than appeals to emotion - a logical fallacy. Note that an appeal to emotion is NOT the same thing as having an emotional case for something, as every argument is on some level. But you were trying to goad, invoke a particular emotion or making one emotional appeal seem more urgent than another using weighted language; which is the formal fallacy of Appeal to Emotion; meaning, objectively, no matter what rules you can force upon me, it was poor debating. This is not an opinion.

You can apply that to almost anything - human rights, disability welfare, a fair wage. It might be more urgent, but it doesn't make it any less correct. It's just as logically invalid and poor debating here as it is in those.

Just because I'm "Whining" for something doesn't mean I deserve it any less. It's just a popular excuse.

If you're the same moderation staff that banned EPS and others for little to no reason - you have no right to criticise anyone else's maturity.

It's not that you can't have what you want because it's too difficult to give it to you, it's because you don't deserve it.

This is a cop out. It's an unfair situation, if I challenge your authority, which I HAVE to do in some way to make this argument, you can just get pissed off at me and say thing like this based on that.

What do you even base this off? In your reply so far, you've been immensely patronising and have shown no real rational defense for your decision. If it comes down to "I Don't think you deserve it", then you've lost the argument, and should act accordingly. You have to provide reasoning for your claims, or else you don't deserve to have a board with such membership to begin with.

Even if this is your forum, it is not your place to dictate what people "deserve". That was a really bad thing to say. You are criticising me personally as a person, saying I am not a good enough person to receive this benefit - when all I am doing is making an argument, I'm not enforcing anything on anyone. That's when people are up for criticism - not the other way around, because their personal intents can actually affect others on a wide scale. It doesn't matter if it's a privelage. The fact is you implied I was an unfit person in general.

I have been trying to be fair and calm in this debate. Because of the extent of my disability this is extremely difficult to do for me, due to the general frustration of communicating with others. You have no idea quite how hard it can be, especially when you make such nonsensical comparisons.
You should be a little more appreciating of that. On top of that, my brain simply doesn't process many social rules and cues. But luckily, I have high logical intelligence, so you're free to appeal to me on those grounds.

But I've still yet to see any logical reason why PMs are blocked. Where is the evidence of this PM spamming, and why is it not dealth with in a more efficent manner? Why does the post count to recieve PMs need to be so high?

[Rosie]

And? This is not the only board that doesn't give trolls access to PMs. We've explained our policy and perspective. Frankly, you don't seem interested in participating in a friendly pleasant tone and we're simply unlikely to capitulate just because you are crying in the cereal isle about not getting your fruit loops.

Also, I'd like to point out that putting "friendly tone" over a solid argument is possibly the single greatest crime in debate. It is an instance of the Style over Substance fallacy, and particularly discriminative against people like me who find the "style" part immensely difficult.

People always abuse this to make them seem more mature and intelligent. Keeping a calm compose does not mean you are more mature and intelligent, just that you are keeping a calm compose. It does not make you any more right and many people abuse it, becoming very insulting and patronising while remaining calm on the surface, riling up their opponent. This is a form of trolling.

I would also thank you not to insinuate I am a troll. A troll is not someone who has an issue with something, it is someone who purposely tries to rile up others for their own enjoyment, or to further their argument. In my case, riling people up sets my argument back. I most certainly am not enjoying this. Admins often abuse the term "troll" so they can demean those who disagree with their decisions. It is, again, not a fair thing to do.

Regardless of how friendly my tone is, it does not alter the truth value of my argument. Also, I have tried my absolute best to be as "friendly" as possible.