How should a Vegetarian get along with a Meat eater?

[Wormboy]

Well yes you still have reason. You'd be minimalizing the pain you spread.

http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/plantbi...er/009322.html

There you go darling.

[blackwater1110]

Thank you, good sir. That was exactly what I needed to know.

[Tam Li Hua]

Honestly, I think everyone's overlooking the fact that people are natural omnivores. It's as natural and normal for mankind to eat both meat and veggies as it is for a lion to eat a gazelle.

The only thing is, lions don't feel guilty...or -try- to feel guilty...about it.

I think that black water is right in the sense that if this isn't something you can reach a reasonable compromise with your boy about, then you need to break it off because you'll just make each other miserable in the long run.

At the same time, I think it's a little silly to not associate with people who eat meat, or worse...to stereotype them. I would say at least 90% of the human population eats meat, and not all of them are assholes.

Personally, I don't care what you do, but please don't think you are somehow better or more moral than other people just because you don't eat meat products and we do; this is a harsh world, and no matter WHAT you eat, wear, or do, you're -going- to hurt -someone-.

Might as well get used to it. ^_^

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Originally Posted by BLEED REBELION!!!

Yeah I wouldnt raise my kids straight vegan. And I have been looking into vitamin supliments and other sources of protein/calcium/etc.

When/if you have kids, put their health before your moral choices. Being nutrient-deficient of anything is misery.
Also, be aware that vitamin supplements don't work NEARLY as well as real food. You need all the other nutrients that also come in the food.

[raggedyanne]

My boyfriend and I agreed that while he'd let me not feed them red meat, we couldn't make a kid go totally vegan. People just don't metabolize vitamin supplements as well as vitamins from foods.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Personally, I don't know if I could do very well without beef. It's my miracle meat in the way of nutrients. I don't like the fact that beef are kept in feed lots (I've been to one and it's fucking disgusting. The cows live in their own shit. Unfortunately, my family has some shares in it...) but it's a choice I have to make for health.

Tam Li Hua: I was thinking the same thing. No one ever tries to convince lions to stop eating gazelles, or tries to convince owls to stop hunting small rodents. Humans are built to be omnivores.
Though it would be nice if we treated our livestock better...

[dark_dragon_of_ice]

In new Zealand our cows are breed free range in large grassy paddocks..

[gothicusmaximus]

How can anyone be a vegetarian when KFC exists?

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

How can anyone be a vegetarian when KFC exists?

If KFC was the only source of meat, I'd find it very easy to be a vegetarian :P . Personally, I like stir-fried meat with curry and steamed-and-buttered broccoli, whether it's chicken or beef or what.

[ionic_angel]

MMMmm...KFC. It's been too long since I had some really good junk food.

[Wormboy]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

How can anyone be a vegetarian when KFC exists?

KFC has such cruel animal practices that it's half the reason people BECOME vegetarians. I like meat, I don't eat much for health reasons, but I like it well enough. Even I don't eat KFC.

[ionic_angel]

Fortunately, I am both blissfully ignorant about those abuses and gloriously apathetic.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Wormboy

KFC has such cruel animal practices that it's half the reason people BECOME vegetarians. I like meat, I don't eat much for health reasons, but I like it well enough. Even I don't eat KFC.

I don't generally eat much meat either, but I love KFC. It's delicious.
When chickens can no longer suffer the horrors our race has perpetrated against theirs and rise up in righteous fury, usurping humanity from its position as this planet's dominant species, I will accept death by firing squad.

[ionic_angel]

Dangit. I wanted to buck the trend and hate you but you're too awesome not to like. :-P

[blackwater1110]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

[color=red]Honestly, I think everyone's overlooking the fact that people are natural omnivores. It's as natural and normal for mankind to eat both meat and veggies as it is for a lion to eat a gazelle.

The only thing is, lions don't feel guilty...or -try- to feel guilty...about it.

I think that black water is right in the sense that if this isn't something you can reach a reasonable compromise with your boy about, then you need to break it off because you'll just make each other miserable in the long run.

At the same time, I think it's a little silly to not associate with people who eat meat, or worse...to stereotype them. I would say at least 90% of the human population eats meat, and not all of them are assholes.

Personally, I don't care what you do, but please don't think you are somehow better or more moral than other people just because you don't eat meat products and we do; this is a harsh world, and no matter WHAT you eat, wear, or do, you're -going- to hurt -someone-.

Might as well get used to it.

You have a completely different conception of morality than I do. I didn't explain my sense of morality so I won't explain why your arguments are based on assumptions that are false in my moral code.

But I will argue that the strategy of avoiding people of poor moral character is one that has been employed by civilized man for hundreds of thousands of years, and it continues to this day. Each one of us decides to avoid certain people on the basis of things like their violent behaviour, or their disrespect towards women, etc. The only difference being that if you were to avoid meat eaters (percieving this as the same sort of offensive moral action as some of the others), you would have a much, much smaller group of people to associate with in comparison. By virtue of that, my moral viewpoint does not become elitist, just different. Just because we have differing views does not mean we can't respect each other. This is the sense in which I am tolerant of other people's point of view, and I'd like it if you were the same way.

[blackwater1110]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

When/if you have kids, put their health before your moral choices. Being nutrient-deficient of anything is misery.
Also, be aware that vitamin supplements don't work NEARLY as well as real food. You need all the other nutrients that also come in the food.

Ideally, wouldn't your moral choices be in alignment with your child's health?

Originally Posted by GothicusMaximus

I don't generally eat much meat either, but I love KFC. It's delicious.
When chickens can no longer suffer the horrors our race has perpetrated against theirs and rise up in righteous fury, usurping humanity from its position as this planet's dominant species, I will accept death by firing squad.

As a joke, this is hilarious. As a moral system, it's about the same. If you meant that, you're of the same kind of person that one would not like to meet in a dark alley.

[ApothoKeri]

You can raise kids vegetarian just fine. Look at most parts of India and dozens of other places. You just have to know what you are doing and put in the proper time and effort to feed your family well balanced meals as opposed to living off of crap or easy options full of fat, sugar and cholesterol and lacking nutritional value (that would go for meat eaters too).

[ionic_angel]

Vegetarian isn't as much a problem as Vegan is. As I understand, Vegans are much more restricted in terms of protein intake than vegetarians.

Now, I grew up vegetarian for the first 12 years of my life, and while I didn't suffer any difficulties because of that, it was largely because of the animal products we did consume that mitigated any potential problems, i.e., goats milk, eggs, etc.

The fact of the matter is that humans are designed with omnivorous eating habits in mind - we do not have the digestive systems of herbivores. Therefore, it is not too far a reach to propose that someone potentially forcing the human body to adapt to non-optimal dietary conditions should be very wary of the possible side effects.

Which is why I also think the Atkins diet is also a load of crud.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by blackwater1110

As a joke, this is hilarious. As a moral system, it's about the same. If you meant that, you're of the same kind of person that one would not like to meet in a dark alley.

Actually, our morality is probably the same, as I too view the infliction of suffering upon any living being to be, with few exceptions, unethical. The difference is that I am comfortable endorsing an unethical enterprise if doing so allows me to eat delicious chicken. In short, while I do feel that vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice morally superior to my own, I just don't care.

[Valrys]

Gothicus Maximus, due to your wholehearted dedication to the Colonel and all of his sweet, sweet tasty chicken products, you totally win at the internet.

And no, I do not have anything worthwhile to add.

Hail KFC!

[ApothoKeri]

Originally Posted by ionic_angel

Vegetarian isn't as much a problem as Vegan is. As I understand, Vegans are much more restricted in terms of protein intake than vegetarians.

Now, I grew up vegetarian for the first 12 years of my life, and while I didn't suffer any difficulties because of that, it was largely because of the animal products we did consume that mitigated any potential problems, i.e., goats milk, eggs, etc.

The fact of the matter is that humans are designed with omnivorous eating habits in mind - we do not have the digestive systems of herbivores. Therefore, it is not too far a reach to propose that someone potentially forcing the human body to adapt to non-optimal dietary conditions should be very wary of the possible side effects.

Which is why I also think the Atkins diet is also a load of crud.

Well, yea you have to work at a vegan diet and make sure that not only your protein is ok in amount but also that your amino acids are balanced properly in order to get the right types of protein builds. The thing that bothers me with the atkins diet and other very low carb is that it throws your body INTO a disease state (ketosis) to do so. Yea that seem like it could cause some issues long term. It can also mask other disease diagnosis. But you know all through the 90's it was a miracle thing to never, ever eat fat, then now in the 2000's not to eat carbs...and the more people cut out the more overweight people seem to get.

[Stormtrooper of Death]

I used to be 285 pounds. I cut down on meat and fatty foods and in combination with more hours at my job I've shaved down to 205 pounds. So I like having just veggies every once in a while. Thought I'd let you guys know...

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by blackwater1110

Ideally, wouldn't your moral choices be in alignment with your child's health?



As a joke, this is hilarious. As a moral system, it's about the same. If you meant that, you're of the same kind of person that one would not like to meet in a dark alley.

I support your efforts in alienating yourself from others. I respect your decision.

The death of a chicken = the bad shit that can happen in a dark ally? Hmmm...

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

The death of a chicken = the bad shit that can happen in a dark ally? Hmmm...

Everyone who eats KFC has, at least once, murdered another human being and proceeded to r.ape his or her corpse.

[dark_dragon_of_ice]

Is it still considered r.ape then?