15 year old being stalked by lesbians and weirdos

[Splintered]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

That's often how kids end up getting hurt.
Reality: kids under 18 have a right to loving parents and a safe home. That's it. No, you do NOT have the right to privacy.

Kids under 18 do have a right to privacy. This was established in Carey V. Population Services International (Go to 19) for procreation, and it has generally been upheld that children have a very limited right to privacy elsewhere, including in In Re Gault ("whatever may be their precise impact, neither the Fourteenth Amendment nor the Bill of Rights is for adults alone"). It's an extremely limited form of privacy (Bellotti v. Baird), but there is a generally an expectation of a basic level of privacy.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so don't trust a word I say.

[Graveyard.Crow]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

That's often how kids end up getting hurt.
Reality: kids under 18 have a right to loving parents and a safe home. That's it. No, you do NOT have the right to privacy.

And, apparently, even WITH her mother right there watching her every move, a woman came and made sexual advances that made the girl uncomfortable. Do you think the situation would have been better if her mother was a "cool mom" and let her daughter go to the rave alone?

Everyone has the right to privacy. It isn't about law, it's about basic humanity. The more she watches over her the more this daughter of hers is going to want to rebel against it. Loving parents yes, overbearing psychos, no.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Splintered

Kids under 18 do have a right to privacy. This was established in Carey V. Population Services International (Go to 19) for procreation, and it has generally been upheld that children have a very limited right to privacy elsewhere, including in In Re Gault ("whatever may be their precise impact, neither the Fourteenth Amendment nor the Bill of Rights is for adults alone"). It's an extremely limited form of privacy (Bellotti v. Baird), but there is a generally an expectation of a basic level of privacy.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so don't trust a word I say.

That is true--but it only really went so far as sex. I meant so far as looking through a kid's room, checking out her friends, etc.

Yeah, it's lame and the kid will hate it, but it's better to have a kid who thinks you're lame than a dead kid.

[Godslayer Jillian]

There's no such thing as a right, but there are natural necessities any individual desires which are beyond any norm set in stone. For example hunger will always be a much more important factor than private property.
This is not just a question of semantics; I'm getting to a point with this:
Maslow's pyramid of needs teaches us the hierarchy of what a human being pursues.
First, like a loaf of bread, it's the basic living needs.
Second is security, which is comes back to what Ophelia was saying.
But what about the next step? Love and belonging. A child needs a healthy relationship with her family in which she is already treated like a human being with all the implications she believes a human being is entitled to have. Does a human being not require privacy every now and then? There's a point where the base steps of Maslow's hierarchy are already met and the individual can only grow if he can move up. More is not better. There's a limit to how much 'security' we need before it becomes a burden.
If this girl is loved enough to allow her to grow in her self-actualization at her own pace rather than her mother's, then there's no reason to set sanctions and restrictions on her.
To have expectations and standards? Fine; that's how an adult should be. That's how my parents are.
But maintain absolute arbitrary regulations? Hell no. The parent is a being with experience and a bond to its son; not an authority figure with an assigned subordinate.

[Catch]

I think that the 15 year old should do something bold, but first she would have to figure out that she doesn't want that type of attention.

Really, she might be a people pleaser and letting it slide. It she stood up to them, even if it was embarassing, they would leave her alone. Then you could take legal action. That would make her the most unpopular girl in school.

Maybe another outlet of expression would take care of the need to fit in. All teens want to fit in.

[Splintered]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

That is true--but it only really went so far as sex. I meant so far as looking through a kid's room, checking out her friends, etc.

Yeah, it's lame and the kid will hate it, but it's better to have a kid who thinks you're lame than a dead kid.

Most interpretations I've seen give a basic expectation of privacy given to children (I.E. When you're going to the bathroom, you can go in peace. If you're changing, you don't have to do so in front of adults), but you're right for most cases. Then again, it's rare that this would ever reach a court, as most minors can't file a legal case for themselves. (You need an adult to sue an adult... XD )

[Catch]

I will cut you. (See how easy that is.)

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

Parents that are this over protective and screen everything their kids do really piss me off. I don't CARE that you think it's for their own good, I don't care that you think you have the right just because they are your kid. Kids are people too, and they need their privacy.
I'm 17 so I am a bit biased, but this is just utterly absurd. The lest you can do is let your daughter do what she wants on the INTERNET. I can't even imagine how overbearing you must be in everything else she wants to do.
My mom used to be similar to that and it almost tore our relationship apart because I just couldn't take it.

^^^^^^

This.

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

That's often how kids end up getting hurt.
Reality: kids under 18 have a right to loving parents and a safe home. That's it. No, you do NOT have the right to privacy.

And, apparently, even WITH her mother right there watching her every move, a woman came and made sexual advances that made the girl uncomfortable. Do you think the situation would have been better if her mother was a "cool mom" and let her daughter go to the rave alone?

Oh god forbid she actually has to say "No thanks" on her own.

We already know you're an authoritarian anyway, so it's no wonder you'd approve of an overbearing mother.

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

That is true--but it only really went so far as sex. I meant so far as looking through a kid's room, checking out her friends, etc.

Yeah, it's lame and the kid will hate it, but it's better to have a kid who thinks you're lame than a dead kid.

Yes, because that's what happens when you let your kid have a separate account on a messageboard.

Fuck me.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Yeah, it's lame and the kid will hate it, but it's better to have a kid who thinks you're lame than a dead kid.

You make it sound as though those are the only options. I know it is hard but parents should strive for a balance between allowing kids to learn things on their own while still managing to keep them safe. My parents manged to do it so it can't be impossible.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Rosie

Yes, because that's what happens when you let your kid have a separate account on a messageboard.

Fuck me.

Um, I didn't say anything about having an account on a message board. I meant general privacy.

Knowing who your children's friends are, wanting phone numbers of where they're staying, that type of thing. I thought I made that clear, but next time I'll take your special needs into account when considering my audience.

[Rosie]

Yes, as your audience may draw attention to the fact that you seemed generally supportive of the idea.

You have no concept of balance. Enjoy your Objectivism.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Rosie

Yes, as your audience may draw attention to the fact that you seemed generally supportive of the idea.

You have no concept of balance. Enjoy your Objectivism.

You make such sweeping statements. It's not very bright to say that because of my beliefs concerning ONE topic I have no concept of balance.

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

You make such sweeping statements. It's not very bright to say that because of my beliefs concerning ONE topic I have no concept of balance.

Given I was saying it relative to this issue, that's a pretty moot point.

You're just, in general, an extremely annoying and pretentious person.

[Paigeybobert]

Maybe the lesbians' gaydars are going off whenever she walks by. Maybe they want to get in her pants and help her realize her true sexuality?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Rosie

Given I was saying it relative to this issue, that's a pretty moot point.

You're just, in general, an extremely annoying and pretentious person.

I understand you feel that way, and you're certainly entitled, but do you have to let your personal feelings for people cloud every discussion you pop into?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Rosie

You have no concept of balance. Enjoy your Objectivism.

That's just funny.

[Graveyard.Crow]

Originally Posted by Rosie

^^^^^^

This.

Learn to let go woman

[Megansmom]

This got off subject but it brought up new issues and I do appreciate everyones point of view.
I do explain to my daughter the reasons for my rules, Does she always like them and follow them? I don't think so. What kid ever does?
As far as privacy goes a lot of her friends had more than needed and have become cutters or abuse themselves in other ways . These parents now control the kids thru drugs , so which is worse knowing what my daughter is doing and letting her go at a slower pace or mind numbing drugs
Megan has a lot of freedom to do things her way, but she knows I am watching . Though she doesn't have a lot of privacy per say she does have a good amount of say in her life. Because in 3 years hopefully she'll be going to college and I'll know she will know how to make decisions and that she is responsible for her own life, i wish I could guarantee good decisions.
Every child matures at a different rate and every parent has different rules and styles of parenting and I respect these differences. Just like her brothers before her when she turns 16 she'll be allowed accounts of her own and a little less supervision. And yes she will also be allowed to date at 16( answering her question)
As far as gaydar goes, I think it's because we live in BFE and everyone here are rednecks and anyone different is well gay. Could be wrong.

[Megansmom]

Originally Posted by Catch

I will cut you. (See how easy that is.)

Her favorite line is a little better: I am going to take this pencil and shove it through your eye,
I personally think she's trying to get pencils on the weapons list. We'll see if it works.

[Chazz]

Now i'm no expert, yet this could be due to her personality and looks.

It depends on how she acts around others. If she is the lound and perky type with looks to boot. Others will take a liking to someone so open and out going, how you dress tells a lot too.

This comment means nothing offensive.

If she wears fishnet tights, has her hair in ******-like hair styles, people will tend to think she could be gay/bi/

Hope i've helped...

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

As far as privacy goes a lot of her friends had more than needed and have become cutters or abuse themselves in other ways .

I hope you're not implying that cutting is a result of too much privacy. That's far too simplistic a view of the matter to be of any use to anyone.

Originally Posted by Megansmom

Every child matures at a different rate and every parent has different rules and styles of parenting and I respect these differences.

Yes. Everyone matures at their own rate. Know this inside and out with your entire mind.

[Graveyard.Crow]

Cutters and abusers. You sound exactly like the type of parent I can't stand. Stop overreacting, experimenting with things that you may think are "omg HORRIBLE" isn't actually that big of a deal. If you don't let your kid be stupid sometimes she will just do it when she is in college, because she won't have gotten it all out of her system. Good luck making your kid a paranoid uptight wreck.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

As far as privacy goes a lot of her friends had more than needed and have become cutters or abuse themselves in other ways . These parents now control the kids thru drugs

Fyi most self injury is the direct result of a feeling of losing control of one's own life, and is much more likely the result of too little privacy than too much. I'm not saying that you have not found a happy medium of privacy, but I did want to you know that if they are self injuring then chances are that there is something else going on (and I really hate to say it but if they are seriously self injuring, ie not simply shallow cuts for attention, then the leading causes are abuse, sexual trauma, and serious emotional disorders so you may want to strongly encourage your daughter to have her friends seek help)