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| Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right."
-H.L. Menken |
10-08-2008, 05:15 PM
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#76
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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While I believe abortion should be legal, I do strongly believe that it's wrong.
By taking birth control, or using other contraceptives, you are admitting your knowledge of the risk of pregnancy, and taking that risk anyway.
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10-08-2008, 05:34 PM
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#77
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
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Why the hell would you resign yourself at the moment of accident?
If you're skateboarding, and you break your arm, you'd be an idiot if you don't go to the hospital!
It's just nonsensical to believe that sex should be treated like a game of Russian roulette, giving away all of your will to mere chance.
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.
I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin
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Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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10-08-2008, 05:37 PM
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#78
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In your dreams.
Posts: 698
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia
While I believe abortion should be legal, I do strongly believe that it's wrong.
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Wrong for moral reasons?
As in killing a child?
I've already stated that overall, I dislike the irresponsibility it promotes.
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10-08-2008, 05:55 PM
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#79
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
Why the hell would you resign yourself at the moment of accident?
If you're skateboarding, and you break your arm, you'd be an idiot if you don't go to the hospital!
It's just nonsensical to believe that sex should be treated like a game of Russian roulette, giving away all of your will to mere chance.
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It's not an accident that only affects you.
No matter how you try to slice it, it is a living child.
It can't talk or anything, but after only a few weeks, it's definitely a child.
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10-08-2008, 06:03 PM
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#80
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
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Which then becomes a matter of responsibility to a human being, not responsibility to an action. They're entirely different arguments.
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.
I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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10-08-2008, 06:07 PM
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#81
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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In this case, they have the same result.
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10-08-2008, 06:17 PM
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#82
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
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They have different moral implications. Are you blaming them because they have the responsibility of a new life, or are you blaming them because, oops, they ran a risk?
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.
I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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10-08-2008, 06:42 PM
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#83
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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They aren't separate to me.
That risk IS the new life.
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10-08-2008, 06:48 PM
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#84
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
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Then talk about the new life, not about responsibility of one action. If you're going to argue about them, you simply can't say that they're the same; there's different arguments for each.
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.
I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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10-08-2008, 07:28 PM
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#85
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Once again...to me they are the same.
The risk isn't a risk without the new life. (except for STDs, but we aren't talking about that.)
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10-08-2008, 07:29 PM
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#86
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Originally Posted by raggedyanne
As long as the boys ur screwing don't already have girlfriends then there's nothing wrong. But as somone who's been cheated on many times, if you are screwing with guys who are taken then you deserve to rot in hell
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No, the guy deserves to rot in hell.
Why shouldn't those chicks have sex with someone they find desirable just because they're attached to someone else? They don't owe you anything; your man does.
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10-08-2008, 07:32 PM
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#87
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius
Posts: 1,750
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia
It's not an accident that only affects you.
No matter how you try to slice it, it is a living child.
It can't talk or anything, but after only a few weeks, it's definitely a child.
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No it's not, it's a chicken looking pile of embryonic cells.
__________________
Because before too long there'll be nothing left alive, not a creature on the land or sea, a bird in the sky. They'll be shot, harpooned, eaten, and hunted too much, vivisected by the clever men who prove that there's no such things as a fair world with live and let live. The Royal family go hunting, what an example to give to the people they lead and that don't include me, I've seen enough pain and torture of those who can't speak...
- Tough Shit, Mickey by Conflict
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10-08-2008, 07:35 PM
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#88
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia
While I believe abortion should be legal, I do strongly believe that it's wrong.
By taking birth control, or using other contraceptives, you are admitting your knowledge of the risk of pregnancy, and taking that risk anyway.
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I agree 100% with your statements here Underwater Ophelia.
Morally, because I believe you are taking the life a child if you have an abortion. That being said I would never pretend to tell a woman what to do with her body, force her to carry an unwanted child to birth, etc.
Nor would I criminalize it because it would only send poor women to back yard buthers to have them, which of course potential could seriously injure the woman.
_________________________________________________
"You did what? To whose dog? For how many cookies?"
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10-08-2008, 07:48 PM
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#89
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack
No it's not, it's a chicken looking pile of embryonic cells.
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Only for a surprisingly short amount of time, dude.
I used to feel the same way.
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10-08-2008, 07:48 PM
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#90
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Wait a minute, woah.
No one get me wrong: I am pro-choice.
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10-08-2008, 07:55 PM
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#91
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius
Posts: 1,750
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We know, I respect how in spite of your personal beliefs, you don't force them on other people. It's still a pile of chicken looking cells. Until it can sustain life on it's own accord, (meaning being able to breath and so on and so forth) I still will consider it a chicken looking pile of embryonic cells.
__________________
Because before too long there'll be nothing left alive, not a creature on the land or sea, a bird in the sky. They'll be shot, harpooned, eaten, and hunted too much, vivisected by the clever men who prove that there's no such things as a fair world with live and let live. The Royal family go hunting, what an example to give to the people they lead and that don't include me, I've seen enough pain and torture of those who can't speak...
- Tough Shit, Mickey by Conflict
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10-10-2008, 11:56 PM
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#92
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lost City of Atlanta
Posts: 326
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
That's not true at all.
McDonald is always harmful.
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But it tastes so damn good...not.
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Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
Sex isn't.
You want to correct it?
Then instead of blaming someone that gets robbed, let's blame someone who doesn't protect their shit well enough when they're willingly living in a place that has had a couple of thefts in the past. There you have it: exactly the same logic.
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I'm not saying sex is always dangerous. But it can be, thanks to stds, and potential pregnancy, especially if people don't take precautions such as condoms, birth control, opting for oral sex instead in the case of pregnancy risk, etc. In the case of **** or where the mother will come to physical or psychological harm from carrying the child to term, I think abortion is alright. A mother is an individual with rights to health and life. What I disagree with is people using abortion to escape responsibility for their actions. People who terminate a pregnancy just because the pregnancy is an "inconvenience" to their lives. That seems kinda cheap to me.
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10-11-2008, 05:08 PM
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#93
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,780
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If they're so "selfish" (even though, as Joker said, it's just a pile of embryonic cells until it can survive on its own) they will go as far to have an abortion to get out of responsibility, then how do you think they're going to treat the child when they have him/her?
__________________
-Lauren
"Lucifer was an idiot, it wound up lord and master of nothing at all."
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10-11-2008, 05:55 PM
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#94
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,065
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That's why we have the foster care and adoption systems.
__________________
Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you. If I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.
-Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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10-11-2008, 06:09 PM
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#95
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheBloodEternity
If they're so "selfish" (even though, as Joker said, it's just a pile of embryonic cells until it can survive on its own) they will go as far to have an abortion to get out of responsibility, then how do you think they're going to treat the child when they have him/her?
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Lets rephrase that shall we? What are the odds that the girl will treat the baby right during pregnancy, won't "accidently" fall down stairs, won't drink herself silly, won't have a date with a coat hanger?
I once saw a few websites that shows DIY abortions. Sadly that is what people are reduced to if they can't have a proper abortion.
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10-11-2008, 06:13 PM
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#96
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheBloodEternity
it's just a pile of embryonic cells until it can survive on its own)
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Christ.
That's not true at all.
Fetus at about eight weeks.
Fetus at twenty four weeks.
Neither of these fetuses would really have a shot at life outside the womb, but it's FAR from "a pile of embryonic cells."
I don't mind if you don't have a problem supporting the right to abort a baby at this point, but don't fucking say it's just a pile of cells, because you're wrong.
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10-11-2008, 06:15 PM
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#97
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,780
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@Mageaerotica: Foster care/and group homes are bullshit. Adoption is okay, though I know a kid or two her were pretty devastated from the whole "my mommy didn't want me" deal.
@Saya: Well... duh. Did I ever say any of that wasn't true?
Not to mention all of those are dangerous to the woman AND the baby, while an abortion in a clinic isn't quite as risky.
__________________
-Lauren
"Lucifer was an idiot, it wound up lord and master of nothing at all."
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10-11-2008, 06:18 PM
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#98
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Didn't mean to be snarky to you Lauren, more as a retort to the "thats what adoption is for". Pregnancy is a scary thing and not everyone is willing to go through it for a baby they don't want to have.
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10-11-2008, 06:20 PM
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#99
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,780
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Oh, well then we're making the same point, or at least trying to. You're doing a better job of it, haha.
__________________
-Lauren
"Lucifer was an idiot, it wound up lord and master of nothing at all."
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10-11-2008, 06:22 PM
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#100
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheBloodEternity
@Mageaerotica: Foster care/and group homes are bullshit.
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And that's a good enough reason to you to kill off a child?
First of all, not all group homes and foster care situations are bullshit.
Second, high school is bullshit. McDonald's food is bullshit. Living in slums is bullshit. Being treated badly by friends is bullshit.
Should we abort all babies because at one point they're going to experience some serious bullshit?
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