Israel/Palestine

[Despanan]

Dude...We are posting...about Israel...in a goth forum.

There's nothing mature about this, so just have fun with it.

[weepingblood]

Hahaha, ok.

At least you have a sense of humor.

[Despanan]

I play a mean rubber-chicken.

[KontanKarite]

I'll play your rubber chicken!

[weepingblood]

How do you "play" a rubber chicken?!!!

[ThreeEyesOni]

With a firm but gentle touch.

*sighs and goes to look for dinner*

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

I say! I haven't seen you in a while Oni.
Personally I think the best solution is for them to just stop killing each other (like Oni said, I think). That's the only one that wouldn't cause more problems.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Israel has no excuse for existing.

[AngelikDemonik]

I wouldn't be the slightest bit sad if Israel was taken off of maps and Palestine was put in it's place.

[Saya]

Its a very messy situation with no real easy solution, I don't think Israel has any right but its been so long and like Oni said, what can you do? Force all of them out? Likewise, you can't do the same with the Palestinians. They're stuck with each other and hopefully it won't end with one side finally killing off the other. Something has to be done to get both sides engaged in meaningful diplomatic dialogue.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

I wouldn't be the slightest bit sad if Israel was taken off of maps and Palestine was put in it's place.

I can't wrap my head around statements like these.

So what do you propose be done then? Israelis just walk into the ocean en masse?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by viscus

So what do you propose be done then? Israelis just walk into the ocean en masse?

Palestinians wanted their lands as their nation. If Israelis want to live with them, fine by them.*
But Israel wants Palestine for itself.


*(well, by this point in time Israel has alienated too much of the region for a simply "I'm sorry, can I keep my toys though?")

[viscus]

It would probably be best for both sides to come together in a sort of pluralistic federal state, but nobody seems to want that anymore.

[AngelikDemonik]

Originally Posted by viscus

It would probably be best for both sides to come together in a sort of pluralistic federal state, but nobody seems to want that anymore.

No, I'd be just peachy with that, but like Jillian said, Israel wants the land exclusively for herself (the government, at least).

I'm not too keen on how Israeli soldiers treat Palestinian civilians, either. Shooting an AK at a little boy throwing rocks hardly seems justified. (Neither are suicide bombings, on the flip-side, though).

Honestly, even if they ever come to some type of split between the land, I doubt there will ever be peace in that area. There's a lot of bad blood.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Israel has no excuse for existing.

Yeah, who cares about little things like the holocaust?

[viscus]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Yeah, who cares about little things like the holocaust?

You know, I was hoping no one would go there.

Yeah, fucked up shit happened, but people should try to move forward. Saying either side should be wiped off the map is counter-productive, these are millions of people we're talking about. Nobody is going anywhere.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Yeah, who cares about little things like the holocaust?

So... I should agree that, if Chicanos ever suffered a mass genocide, the way to go is to clear out Baja California and Sonora from all its inhabitants for our descendants to have a place to live uninterrupted by the natives?

[Despanan]

So... I should agree that, if Chicanos ever suffered a mass genocide, the way to go is to clear out Baja California and Sonora from all its inhabitants for our descendants to have a place to live uninterrupted by the natives?

Dude, years before the Holocaust, Hitler's entire plan, including the "final solution" was read to the entire British House of Commons (as well as the League of Nations if I'm not mistaken) And the great powers of Europe did nothing. England let a few Jews in, and then closed it's borders. No one cared, not enough anyway, and when it was over, pretty much the only place Jews were left was America.

The Jews had no homeland, and desperately needed a place where they could protect themselves. Hence the Jewish state.

Now, placing it in Palestine was a bad idea, and displacing the Palestinians was wrong. No one is arguing that. However to claim that "Israel has no excuse for existing." is just plain fucktarded. It's an extreme, emotional response bereft of any sort of logic and an example of the extreme political blindness that has lead to the aformentioned "Clusterfuck" in the region.

Part of the reason things are so fucked up over there is people refuse to acknowlege the opposing view, and I'll be dammed if I'm going to let someone get away with something like that here.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Dude, years before the Holocaust, Hitler's entire plan, including the "final solution" was read to the entire British House of Commons (as well as the League of Nations if I'm not mistaken) And the great powers of Europe did nothing. England let a few Jews in, and then closed it's borders. No one cared, not enough anyway, and when it was over, pretty much the only place Jews were left was America.

Did you ever hear about the SS St.Louis? America nor Canada would take them. They couldn't even run to us.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Saya

Did you ever hear about the SS St.Louis? America nor Canada would take them. They couldn't even run to us.

I was not familiar with that particular incident, but it doesn't surprise me.

All the more reason for a Jewish state to exist, I just wish they'd excercised a bit more planning before they decided to drop it in Palestine.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Well, they couldn't put it in any of the Western states, because that would involve displacing their own people. So why not put it where there are a bunch of people we don't care about? Those dirty Muslims *took* the land from those who were there originally. Centuries of being there doesn't give them any rights at all (even though it gives white folk the right to land taken from the Natives here in North America). They don't deserve to get the Holy Land. They profane it. They destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. And anyway, the Jews were there in BIBLICAL times. Therefore they *must* be meant to live there.

If I forgot anything, feel free to add it in.

Goodness, I hate politicians and their logic. *goes to sleep*

*note: this post is not a reflection of my sentiments, just of the logic my cynical and sleep-deprived brain projected upon those who decided to stick Israel where it is.

[$haDe]

This is what I don't understand.

I was confused by

: possible statement.

- Israel hates Palestine and used any chance to hurt them in any way.

- It's about religion.

- It's racist. like how Nazi did to jewish people.

[Necrophagist]

Shade made a good point there.

They dumped the Jews in a Muslim country, and not in their own states - proves how in sincere they truly are.

[Necrophagist]

Shade made a good point there.

They dumped the Jews in a Muslim country, and not in their own states - proves how insincere they truly are.

[Despanan]

Actually, it was the British who put Israel there, not the Americans (though I'm sure we had a hand in it.) Palestine was under British rule at the time, as it was a left-over part of their empire.