PC liberal pussyfooted bullshit

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

More on-topic reply:

While I said above that I agree with the OP, I've been thinking about it and I need to ammend my comment a bit.

Of course there are aspects of other cultures that shouldn't be tolerated [i. e., ritual suicide, the teen boy 'coming of age blow job' thing, and the like]. However, if one is living in a foreign country, you still have to be careful as to how you approach such things. You can't go in like the U. S. military and demand change of a 3,000-year-old tradition and expect it to work. Rather, it's probably better to simply present a better way of doing things in a non-hostile way, and explain to the natives why you and your culture do it differently. By presenting the information in a way that's different from "You're WRONG and I'm RIGHT!", you are more likely to inspire change than if you simply try to force your point on the other culture.

After all, we don't like it when foreigners tell -us- what to do, or that we are doing something wrong, so why would other cultures appreciate it any more than we do?

I seriously don't see the problem with the blowjob thing...

[All Shall Be Judged]

Originally Posted by Cicero

I'll admit I was surprised to read a rant against such 'barbaric' practices through the world, and see only mentions of a few unnecessary blowjobs, eating weird animals and arranged marriages...

Stoning women to death for being gang-r@ped, anyone?

Prezactly my thoughts. I agree that not all acts of worthy of respect on the basis of the culture to which they belong, but the example was poorly chosen when there are children having their clitorises cut off daily.

The blowjob thing is fine. I'd imagine it's a symbolic ritual - in order to become a man, you imbibe the seed of a man. It's no more sinister than pouring water on a baby's head on the pretext of washing away original sin, which is only sinister from an intellectual point of view. Much like this; whilst the ritual itself is suspect in terms of what it actually claims to do, it's just an expression of cultural identity which, in itself, doesn't harm anyone.

Interesting that someone railing against political correctness instantly went for the knee-jerk "child sex is wrong! It's WROOOONG!!" angle.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

All the examples were something I got into a fight with a liberal about with today. "Liberal"

IF ANY of you know me, you KNOW I think this country is fucked up and barbaric. I also know I do some fucked up things, I'm working on them. I'm not just talking one sided oh our culture is fine theirs is fucked. No. Theirs is fucked, ours is fucked. I don't have to respect either.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I seriously don't see the problem with the blowjob thing...

It's not the blowjob, it's the stupid delusion of it being ingesting a "spirit". It's basically me calling another religion on it's bullshit.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Then why not just say that instead of mentioned the blowjob at all?

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Because it's the lovely delusional part.

Not the point, you're hanging up on a small part.

Just to clarify, I respect people's right to HAVE stupid beliefs.
I do not have to respect the beliefs themselves.

[Albert Mond]

I agree with Joker. Said belief is stupid. What's more, I wouldn't be surprised if the tribe in question views homosexuality as a sin.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by viscus

Joker's nibbling around the edges of the argument that moral relativism is bullshit, with which I'm inclined to agree.

Yeah.
But again, I haven't seen anyone use that as an argument to justify the kind of things being mentioned here. Jillian already covered that though, people don't argue for brutal rites of passage.

When it comes to being PC, I usually see arguments about what terms to use for fat people. Or generally just renaming something. It's still bullshit, but it's not like people are saying you have to respect arranged marriage or whatever.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Moral relativism and political correctness are not one and the same.
Moral relativism is pretty much dead on. We shun at a culture that has brutal rites of passage, but to them we cruelly and coldly abandon our children most days in concentrated buildings filled with other abandoned children because we find they get in the way of higher priorities. Who's right in this?

I think your being overly dramatic about the latter point, but perhaps they're both wrong. Regardless, moral relativism is bogus. You can't hold groups people to different standards of wrong and right.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by viscus

I think your being overly dramatic about the latter point, but perhaps they're both wrong. Regardless, moral relativism is bogus. You can't hold groups people to different standards of wrong and right.

Yes you can.

[Jonathan]

I think it is perfectly reasonable to hold different people to different standards. Children and adults for example.

When I am hanging out with my Jewish friend who won't have a bacon cheeseburger for at least two reasons, I don't freak out over it. I don't care if other people have irrational reasons for doing things. I "respect" their traditions and whatnot in the sense of not giving a fuck about it and letting them carry on as they see fit. If I was expected to have to adjust my preferences around them, that would be a different situation.

[viscus]

So it's okay from a Muslim to murder his daughter because he suspects she's promiscuous? It's morally acceptable according to his culture.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by viscus

So it's okay from a Muslim to murder his daughter because he suspects she's promiscuous? It's morally acceptable according to his culture.

There's a difference between an Orthodox Muslim and a more modern one. Many Muslims consider that sort of practice archaic. Actually, you probably know that and were referring to the former, but just in case. You know.

[viscus]

I know, I didn't mean to come off as glib or biased against Islam. It's an extreme example but it does happen, as do other awful things like genital mutilation, and it's where the moral relativist gets into trouble. If you believe that morality truly varies from culture to culture or even person to person, than even the Holocaust is okay because it was considered the right thing to do by the people who did it.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by viscus

So it's okay from a Muslim to murder his daughter because he suspects she's promiscuous? It's morally acceptable according to his culture.

My first post already had addressed this perfectly, so what's your point?

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by viscus

If you believe that morality truly varies from culture to culture or even person to person, than even the Holocaust is okay because it was considered the right thing to do by the people who did it.

I'm pretty sure that's what he's saying. And technically, he's right.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Are you talking about me?

[Albert Mond]

No. I'm talking about Gene Roddenberry. If you didn't have your ashes sent into space, then fuck off.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Seriously, if you were talking about me, you got it wrong.

[blackwater1110]

I wrote an essay in college defending moral subjectivism as a descriptive theory, and advocating for some objective principles as a normative practice in evaluating other moralities--essentially what Jillian said. If anyone would like to read it, let me know.

[viscus]

That sounds like value pluralism, not moral relativism in the strict sense.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Seriously, if you were talking about me, you got it wrong.

My interpretation of your words, while less obvious, is still valid.

[Serephurus]

"If your Gothic, FUCK YOU!"

yeah. I bet you didn't see that coming. It IS hypocritical.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

You annoy me, get out of my thread.