Global Warming Severity Just a Hoax? - Page 2

JCC · 12-09-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

In the age of oversaturation of information, there should at least be a study floating around to the contrary...

But the fact that there is no funded reasearch into actual unbiased probable cause behind global warming is a headscratcher.

Unlike most of the population... I'd like to see two sides of a story before I throw down my undying support.

Sue me.

What do you want them to do, man, release some pretend data that implies industrialisation isn't accelerating climate change so that you feel like it's non-partisan?

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

What do you want them to do, man, release some pretend data that implies industrialisation isn't accelerating climate change so that you feel like it's non-partisan?

I'd like some actual research done... not paying a group of scientists to prove that something exists...

If something is this detrimental to my planet, I want unbiased research to find the root of the cause. I don't want my government spending trillions of dollars to prove that CO2 is bad.

In short, there has ALWAYS been Global Warming and Cooling, it predates us as well... why don't we try to find out the causes of that instead of trying to band-aid it by stacking taxes on people who drive cars and take vacations?

JCC · 12-09-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

I'd like some actual research done... not paying a group of scientists to prove that something exists...

If something is this detrimental to my planet, I want unbiased research to find the root of the cause. I don't want my government spending trillions of dollars to prove that CO2 is bad.

Yes, every investigation into global warming has been funded directly by the US government.

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

Yes, every investigation into global warming has been funded directly by the US government.

I'm not speaking specifically about the US here. I'm in Canada.

I'm speaking about globally.

Basically all this seems to be doing is driving the price of oil higher, while nations race to make the next generation of fuel.

Hell, I remember back in high school science (6 years ago...) we were talking about Hydrogen fuel... yet, it's only now being looked at as an alternative?

What about the electric car? Scrapped in favor of hybrids, now they're phasing to electric cars again... Makes no sense in my mind.

JCC · 12-09-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

I'm not speaking specifically about the US here. I'm in Canada.

I'm speaking about globally.

Basically all this seems to be doing is driving the price of oil higher, while nations race to make the next generation of fuel.

Hell, I remember back in high school science (6 years ago...) we were talking about Hydrogen fuel... yet, it's only now being looked at as an alternative?

What about the electric car? Scrapped in favor of hybrids, now they're phasing to electric cars again... Makes no sense in my mind.

Where do you get that idea?

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

Where do you get that idea?

If a group of high school students could prove 6 years ago that hydrogen can power a car... I'm sure scientists knew about it a decade sooner.

So why don't you tell me why we don't have a hydrogen fuel cell car on the roads today?

devereaux · 12-09-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

In the age of oversaturation of information, there should at least be a study floating around to the contrary...

But the fact that there is no funded reasearch into actual unbiased probable cause behind global warming is a headscratcher.

Unlike most of the population... I'd like to see two sides of a story before I throw down my undying support.

Sue me.

I'd rather not pull the "I'm an environmental geologist" card if I don't have to, but it usually seems as though it comes to that when people get into a climate change discussion. Nowadays carbon dioxide is measured all the time, and there is a lot of proxy data (for example, ice cores) that provide information for quite a ways back. Here is some more recent information from NOAA.

GMD Carbon Cycle Greenhouse Gases Group (CCGG)
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devereaux

I'd rather not pull the "I'm an environmental geologist" card if I don't have to, but it usually seems as though it comes to that when people get into a climate change discussion. Nowadays carbon dioxide is measured all the time, and there is a lot of proxy data (for example, ice cores) that provide information for quite a ways back. Here is some more recent information from NOAA.

GMD Carbon Cycle Greenhouse Gases Group (CCGG)
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/

Well everyone's a lawyer, everyone's an expert.

I don't claim to be a genius of anything on here, I'm just expressing my opinion on the whole matter as data is data and if someone really wanted to prove something, data can be made to look however you want it to.

Besides, the thread wasn't even debating the existence of Global Warming... just a discussion on the severity being overblown

JCC · 12-09-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

If a group of high school students could prove 6 years ago that hydrogen can power a car... I'm sure scientists knew about it a decade sooner.

So why don't you tell me why we don't have a hydrogen fuel cell car on the roads today?

Because if your school taught you that we knew enough about hydrogen fuel cells for it to be a viable replacement for carbon then your school should be shut down. Hydrogen was never proven to be an immediate solution, they don't even know how to extract it efficiently yet. It's aight though, because there are some fuel cell vehicles on the road, so you're wrong on both counts, good job.

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

Because if your school taught you that we knew enough about hydrogen fuel cells for it to be a viable replacement for carbon then your school should be shut down. Hydrogen was never proven to be an immediate solution, they don't even know how to extract it efficiently yet. It's aight though, because there are some fuel cell vehicles on the road, so you're wrong on both counts, good job.

That's why Japan's monorails are powered using hydrogen fuel cells? Really?

JCC · 12-09-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

That's why Japan's monorails are powered using hydrogen fuel cells? Really?

Monorail.

Global transport industry.

Monorail...

...global fucking transport industry.

Equivalence · 12-09-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

That's why Japan's monorails are powered using hydrogen fuel cells? Really?

The hydrogen fuel cells used in trains are different from the hydrogen fuel cells used to power cars. Trains don't suffer from a lot of the problems cars do, including the nasty habit of getting in to crashes on a regular basis.

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

Monorail.

Global transport industry.

Monorail...

...global fucking transport industry.

Your point?

It powers a fucking train. What makes you think it can't be designed to run a car engine?

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equivalence

The hydrogen fuel cells used in trains are different from the hydrogen fuel cells used to power cars. Trains don't suffer from a lot of the programs cars do, including the nasty habit of getting in to crashes on a regular basis.

Setbacks are setbacks,

Hell I'm still waiting for the hovercars we were promised from back in the 50s.

JCC · 12-09-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Your point?

It powers a fucking train. What makes you think it can't be designed to run a car engine?

One train is not comparable with billions of cars, you dumbfuck.

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

One train is not comparable with billions of cars, you dumbfuck.

Walking a fine line there troll.

If we can adapt a car to run purely on electricity... we can adapt a car to run on a hydrogen fuel cell.

devereaux · 12-09-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

I'd like some actual research done... not paying a group of scientists to prove that something exists...

If something is this detrimental to my planet, I want unbiased research to find the root of the cause. I don't want my government spending trillions of dollars to prove that CO2 is bad.

In short, there has ALWAYS been Global Warming and Cooling, it predates us as well... why don't we try to find out the causes of that instead of trying to band-aid it by stacking taxes on people who drive cars and take vacations?

It really seems as though you have no idea how things work in the academic and research community.

Furthermore, you can't possibly think that scientists havent been studying the causes of global warming and cooling (beyond human influence) for a ages now. Ever heard of things like Milankovitch Cycles or the Thermohaline Circulation System?

Equivalence · 12-09-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Setbacks are setbacks,

Hell I'm still waiting for the hovercars we were promised from back in the 50s.

So your reply is essentially "Nah nah nah I can't hear you, hovercars"?

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devereaux

It really seems as though you have no idea how things work in the academic and research community.

Furthermore, you can't possibly think that scientists havent been studying the causes of global warming and cooling (beyond human influence) for a ages now. Ever heard of things like Milankovitch Cycles or the Thermohaline Circulation System?

Save the preaching for the classroom.

Equivalence · 12-09-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Walking a fine line there troll.

If we can adapt a car to run purely on electricity... we can adapt a car to run on a hydrogen fuel cell.

We can, and we have. See the Ford Edge and GM Sequel.

The problem is, they're more expensive than cheaper alternatives like plug-in electrics and hybrids, and the infrastructure to fill them with hydrogen doesn't exist. Since we already have an electrical grid, electric cars win by default.

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equivalence

So your reply is essentially "Nah nah nah I can't hear you, hovercars"?

Like your previous post had any more depth?

Looking into this.. it seems that hey, we DO have a fuel cell... but we're not using it.

Here

Long and boring, but here.

and Here

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equivalence

We can, and we have. See the Ford Edge and GM Sequel.

The problem is, they're more expensive than cheaper alternatives like plug-in electrics and hybrids, and the infrastructure to fill them with hydrogen doesn't exist. Since we already have an electrical grid, electric cars win by default.

So where are all the electric cars? (Not Hybrids, btw.)

Equivalence · 12-09-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Like your previous post had any more depth?

Looking into this.. it seems that hey, we DO have a fuel cell... but we're not using it.

Here

Long and boring, but here.

and Here

Actually, it did, but I'm questioning your ability to read at this point.

Again, I'm not doubting that hydrogen vehicles exist. I'm saying that they have enough problems, and such a lack of infrastructure, that electric cars are the better choice.

JCC · 12-09-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Walking a fine line there troll.

If we can adapt a car to run purely on electricity... we can adapt a car to run on a hydrogen fuel cell.

How do you produce it efficiently? How do you store it cost-effectively? How do you store it safely? How do you mass produce it? Can we mass produce it? Can we produce enough? Of course we can produce enough for a single fucking train, but that doesn't mean that hydrogen fuel cells are ready to be used as an alternative fuel for automobiles.

Maverick · 12-09-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equivalence

Actually, it did, but I'm questioning your ability to read at this point.

Again, I'm not doubting that hydrogen vehicles exist. I'm saying that they have enough problems, and such a lack of infrastructure, that electric cars are the better choice.

Well, for a world that is bleeding out money to find a way to stop pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, they certainly aren't very quick about developing either hydrogen OR electric cars.