Femenism

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Tumor

Why should I do for you what you yourself have yet to do?

How has helpman not cited how the individual in question is wrong?
I might have argued with an argument he made, which was very faulty to me, but the general point he's making is correct.
The same title of this thread proves it. Has anyone really talked about feminism?
No.
We've been talking about feminazis. We can clearly see how people relate feminism to feminazis instantly, just as many people relate Islam directly to terrorism. Saying that people just tend to do this justifies nothing.

Originally Posted by Tumor

Thank you for proving my point.

If I have seen farther than others, it is because I am standing on the shoulder of giants; it is the responsibility of intellectuals to speak the truth and expose lies. For that reason new opinions often appear first as jokes and fancies, then as blasphemies and treason, then as questions open to discussion, and finally as established truths.

[Tumor]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

How has helpman not cited how the individual in question is wrong?

Read his response to Beneath_the_Shadows, which includes BtS's post in quotes. First post at the top of page 2. Here's basically how it goes.

BtS basically says that the problem with the public face of feminism these days is that everything being done in the name of feminism is at the behest of the extremists, and that the actual feminists don't do anything to dissuade these notions.

Sir. Helpmann's response was...

1. That BtS is just repeating rhetoric. But saying so doesn't make it true.
2. That his (Helpmann's) views on feminism is different than how he thinks some people portray it. However, saying such a thing does nothing to show that BtS is wrong.
3. That this entire topic paints the wrong picture about feminism. This still does nothing to show that BtS is wrong.
4. The wrong picture mentioned in #3 is painted by the media. Again, this doesn't prove BtS wrong.

So, to more directly answer your question of "how has helpman not cited how the individual in question is wrong," he has not shown BtS to be wrong because he didn't even respond to what BtS actually said.

I might have argued with an argument he made, which was very faulty to me, but the general point he's making is correct.
The same title of this thread proves it. Has anyone really talked about feminism?
No.
We've been talking about feminazis. We can clearly see how people relate feminism to feminazis instantly, just as many people relate Islam directly to terrorism. Saying that people just tend to do this justifies nothing.

Seems to me that BtS was talking about feminism (one aspect of it, at least) rather than just feminazis.

Originally Posted by Tumor

Read his response to Beneath_the_Shadows, which includes BtS's post in quotes. First post at the top of page 2. Here's basically how it goes.

BtS basically says that the problem with the public face of feminism these days is that everything being done in the name of feminism is at the behest of the extremists, and that the actual feminists don't do anything to dissuade these notions.

Sir. Helpmann's response was...

1. That BtS is just repeating rhetoric. But saying so doesn't make it true.
2. That his (Helpmann's) views on feminism is different than how he thinks some people portray it. However, saying such a thing does nothing to show that BtS is wrong.
3. That this entire topic paints the wrong picture about feminism. This still does nothing to show that BtS is wrong.
4. The wrong picture mentioned in #3 is painted by the media. Again, this doesn't prove BtS wrong.

So, to more directly answer your question of "how has helpman not cited how the individual in question is wrong," he has not shown BtS to be wrong because he didn't even respond to what BtS actually said.



Seems to me that BtS was talking about feminism (one aspect of it, at least) rather than just feminazis.

Again I don't quite see your point. Looks as if you're deliberately trying to brew for a fight without actually having anything to argue over.

Does feminist mean large unpleasant person who'll shout at you or someone who believes women are human beings? To me it's the latter. I will only feel equality has arrived when we can elect to office women who are as incompetent as some of the men who are already there.

[Beneath the Shadows]

All I can say is, thanks, Tumor, but I can fight my own fights. Since Sir Helpman didn't respond to my challenge, he is either unwilling or incapable of responding. In light of that fact, and since it's obvious to all, I'm willing to let it go.

[Tumor]

Sorry. The way he said what he said rubbed me the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

All I can say is, thanks, Tumor, but I can fight my own fights. Since Sir Helpman didn't respond to my challenge, he is either unwilling or incapable of responding. In light of that fact, and since it's obvious to all, I'm willing to let it go.

Challenge? Don't make me laugh; this is Rorschach Twin's thread, and I was responding to him not you.

Don't be so conceited to think that you even had a part to play in this little "debate" between me and Tumor.

And Tumor I'm sorry if the fluidity of my prose offends you, perhaps you should take the time in future not to be offended by things that really aren't all that important.

[Duane]

The thing that gets me is the whole "OMFG, we weak, no hit us, we're oh so fragile!" card they play, while at the same time being bitchy. Seriously, they piss you off, and they play the whole "Can't hit a girl! We're sooo much weaker than men!" card... it's frustrating. Other than all that BS, feminism is fine, they just go a little over the top sometimes.

Originally Posted by Duane

The thing that gets me is the whole "OMFG, we weak, no hit us, we're oh so fragile!" card they play, while at the same time being bitchy. Seriously, they piss you off, and they play the whole "Can't hit a girl! We're sooo much weaker than men!" card... it's frustrating. Other than all that BS, feminism is fine, they just go a little over the top sometimes.

Oh come on now, stop being so weak yourself; again old age prejudices that have nothing whatsoever to do with feminism. What's next? Complaints about how long it takes for girls to get ready perhaps?

[Duane]

I just felt like saying.

[heavilyrxmedicated]

Originally Posted by Methadrine

*reads thread over*

Equal rights and equal pay regardless of gender and sexual preference....

'nuff said.

That's the best answer, in my opinion.

Oh, and I was referring to the OP, Rorschach Twin, in my 1st post... I regularly run into "feminazis" on campus, and they piss me off as much as my chauvinistic neighbors.

I fully agree with methadrine... EQUAL rights and EQUAL pay. E-Q-U-A-L. AS IN, NO MORE OR LESS.

Originally Posted by wonderland

Seriously? Women are "roughly equivalent" to men but continue to push for more? I get told on a regular basis that I can't properly do my job because I'm female. I get propositioned for sex at work once or twice a week, simply because I'm there, and I'm female, and often the only one. I once sat through a two-hour discussion at my university on whether or not women should be allowed to hold the same positions in the military as men. There are still some places where a man can legally force his wife to have sex with him. Like hell women are roughly equivalent, and I intend to push for more until I've actually been given the right to leave my house in the morning and know I'll be treated like a human being. Which doesn't seem like so much to ask, really.

That's messed up... Sexual Harassment claims need to be made on your behalf, perhaps? Where are you living, that you get treated as such an inferior? What culture are you part of that lets this happen? Oh, and to the military comment, the military in most countries have traditionally been sexist... Something that I strongly oppose, but can't do anything about. Or is it perhaps you victimizing yourself? I was referring to the cultures which I have been exposed to when I made that post, and I guess I made the mistake of not taking every culture that I've ever studied into account. My bad.

[wonderland]

I live in the US, and for a while was in Canada. The discussion happened at a university, and was simply about the military. It wasn't participated in by the military itself. The point was more that it's a little abhorrent for a conversation like that to be considered acceptable by the same society that seems to believe women have achieved equality. Try talking a professor into having a conversation about whether or not African Americans, or Jews, are capable of serving equally and meeting the same requirements as everybody else in the military. It would be considered such obvious discrimination that most people wouldn't touch it, for legal reasons if nothing else. Yet the same conversation is had about women regularly, and plenty of people still believe it's a legitimate debate.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Sir. Helpmann

Challenge? Don't make me laugh; this is Rorschach Twin's thread, and I was responding to him not you.

Hey, that's all great and wonderful. And stuff. But there's one little flaw with your argument... after I posted in this topic, you responded directly to me. As evidence, I submit the fact that you quoted my original post and responded to it. Who created the topic is irrelevant. Who's post you responded to is not.

Don't be so conceited to think that you even had a part to play in this little "debate" between me and Tumor.

He responded to a post you made in response to a post I made.

P.S. Nice job attempting to evade my counter-arguments. Too bad you're not fooling anyone.

[wonderland]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

P.S. Nice job attempting to evade my counter-arguments. Too bad you're not fooling anyone.

I've noticed he doesn't actually ever say anything, but rather seems to only list reasons why he shouldn't have to.

[StasisInDarkness]

I think we should all note that feminism is misspelled in the title...

Obviously, it's not impacting people nearly enough.

[Corpsey]

Originally Posted by Beneath the shadows

P.S. Nice job attempting to evade my counter-arguments. Too bad you're not fooling anyone.

Indeed, he's just a deuche trying to use poor logic to make us look bad in his rebuttal. Clearly political material. Needs to work on his view towards woman though.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Corpsey

Indeed, he's just a deuche trying to use poor logic to make us look bad in his rebuttal. Clearly political material. Needs to work on his view towards woman though.

I didn't think that he was using any logic at all. Just rhetoric and excuses.