Gothic couple attacked and beaten

[Duane]

Why?! Why do idiots have to do these horrible things?! I've always wondered, and never figured out why. There is no excuse for brutally assaulting a couple, none. They are not Goth, Skater, Black, White or anything like that first, they're human. They are human just like everyone else. Those imbiciles could've just left them be, let the nice little couple enter their home, and do as they would. No, they had to commit this heinous crime. Words can express how bad I feel for Rob Maltby, and Sophia Lancaster. The years they lost, because of a hate crime, commited by those low lifes. RIP Sopia Lancaster.

[Opteron_Man]

now thats a sterling example of why i allways carry my knife with me whenever i go out.

[Opteron_Man]

i cant believe this horrible shit happens to goths. i am sickened and enraged by this news. i am more careful about walking around at night. like i seid, i allways carry a knife with me.

let these fuckers come. i'll be ready.

[Delkaetre]

Carrying knives won't help. The stupidity of retaliation has already been covered in great detail on the Whitby Gothic Weekend forums, where Sophie's relatives and the people organising her tributes have discussed damn near everything.
Do not carry a knife. It is not wise or legal. Learn to defend yourself with a stick or staff and carry a walking stick instead- it keeps aggressors at more distance than the knife ever would, and can be used to wind them or crack them over the head instead of stabbing. Always better to do the minimum amount of damage.

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by Opteron_Man

now thats a sterling example of why i allways carry my knife with me whenever i go out.

You do know that the moment you stab that knife into someone you're stamped a criminal yourself, and that a human is relatively easy to kill with just one somewhat lucky placed cut? Damage dealt by trauma is not so deadly.

I'd leave that knife home next time, if I were you.

[Opteron_Man]

i wish the victoms had knives. something, anything! even a busted pop bottle! FFS!

[Opteron_Man]

oh wait! what about carrying one of thoes telescopic police battons. thoes can't kill. not very easilly at least.

[DepthsofSpace]

Originally Posted by Methadrine

You do know that the moment you stab that knife into someone you're stamped a criminal yourself, and that a human is relatively easy to kill with just one somewhat lucky placed cut? Damage dealt by trauma is not so deadly.

I'd leave that knife home next time, if I were you.

Errr, what about self-defense? If you are in America, msot people I know carry several weapons on them (not all are perfectly legal, but it's a minor crime, better than being dead).

I've decided I'm buying a Tazer. I love America for this reason alone. =P

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Carrying knives won't help. The stupidity of retaliation has already been covered in great detail on the Whitby Gothic Weekend forums, where Sophie's relatives and the people organising her tributes have discussed damn near everything.
Do not carry a knife. It is not wise or legal. Learn to defend yourself with a stick or staff and carry a walking stick instead- it keeps aggressors at more distance than the knife ever would, and can be used to wind them or crack them over the head instead of stabbing. Always better to do the minimum amount of damage.

This I sorta agree with. A good solid cane witha pewter head actually could be deadly, and will be immobilizing. having done quite a bit of swordplay in the past, it's rather natural for me, still not great if your attacker has a firearm, but most of the time what you need to be worried about is idiots like the ones who killed Sophie.

[Opteron_Man]

no, even better! as far as I know, there is no law against carrying a maglite flashlight on your belt! the ones that carry "D" cells would be perfect. they are made of high strength aluminum, and from what I hear they can pulverize concrete. now what would you prefer, facing a gang of Goth hating fuckers with nothing, or facing a gang of Goth hating fuckers with a aluminum battering ram. take your pick. do you want to die at their hands or carry a flashlight with you and live to tell the tale.

[DepthsofSpace]

Originally Posted by Opteron_Man

no, even better! as far as I know, there is no law against carrying a maglite flashlight on your belt! the ones that carry "D" cells would be perfect. they are made of high strength aluminum, and from what I hear they can pulverize concrete. now what would you prefer, facing a gang of Goth hating fuckers with nothing, or facing a gang of Goth hating fuckers with a aluminum battering ram. take your pick. do you want to die at their hands or carry a flashlight with you and live to tell the tale.

HAHAHAHA!! YOU ARE GREAT! XD

This should be an ad for MagLit. I can see it all in my mind. The rising steam from the manholes, the bright blue tinted lights, the shadowy Goth haters, and you alone with the Light of Justice! XD

[KontanKarite]

Well, it IS practical... sorta. I don't want to lug around a near 1 pound flashlight though. But I know how to fight and can be quite resourceful when I need to be. Plus, I can also run like a mo fucker.

[Opteron_Man]

rotfl! thanks DepthsofSpace!

[kimaru]

well, get some REALLY high platform boots and it your attacked take your boots off and hit them with the rubber side!!! Thats what those boots should be for...

[WarumonoLady]

Geeeeugh, this makes me a sick sort of angry. Over the course of my life I have come to understand racism (I do not endorse it), and why people hate people who have different physical characteristics in general.....but clothes? Some kids had nothing better to do that say "Hey, they're wearing black, let's beat the ever loving shit out of them"?

(If you're going to beat up a "gothic" couple, make sure it's those people on the Amazing Race.)

[Duane]

If you usually have a skate board, you could always use that. me, personally, I'd carry a blunt weapon. Like one of those flashlights Opteron_Man mentioned.

[acidxrainbows]

That's terrible. I hope those kids loooooots of juvy time.
What is with people's blatant hatred and fear of anyone different than them?

[DeathToLems]

I just saw more news of this on tv. They showed a picture of Sophie in hospital and her boyfriend done an interview. They also said who the kids were that beat them up and showed pictures. Chav's ofcourse

[Edward Strange]

Conviction!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/7316601.stm

Boy convicted of Goth park murder

A 15-year-old boy has been found guilty of murder after he kicked a woman to death because she was a Goth.

Brendan Harris set upon Sophie Lancaster, 20, in a Lancashire park after he and four other youths assaulted her boyfriend Robert Maltby.

Ryan Herbert, 16, had already admitted murdering Miss Lancaster in Stubbylee Park, Bacup, last August.

Det Supt Mick Gradwell, of Lancashire Police, said it was one of the most violent murders he had seen.

He said that Herbert and Harris, who were named when the judge at Preston Crown Court lifted an order banning their identification, did not recognise how violent the attack was.

Mr Gradwell also criticised some of the parents of the boys involved, saying their attitude had been "appalling".

Miss Lancaster, a gap year student, died from serious head injuries two weeks after the incident while 21-year-old Mr Maltby survived.

Prosecutor Michael Shorrock had told the court the gang, who had been drinking, had turned on the young couple simply because they were Goths and were dressed differently.

Harris admitted punching Mr Maltby once in the face, but claimed he played no further part in the attack.

Both Harris and Herbert pleaded guilty to causing grievous bodily harm to Mr Maltby, along with three other males, two aged 17 and one 16, who still cannot be named.

Judge Anthony Russell QC praised the families of both Miss Lancaster and Mr Maltby for their dignity "during what must have been a very, very harrowing ordeal".

He also thanked witnesses who had helped the victims and had given evidence in court. He ordered them to be awarded £250 each.

The judge said that he was duty bound to give Harris and Herbert life sentences but that he would set the tariffs on 28 April.

In a statement released after the verdict, Sylvia Lancaster said her daughter's death was a tragedy to both the family and wider society.

She said: "First, obviously, I have lost an adoring and adorable daughter. She was intelligent, brave, courageous and had a social conscience beyond her years.

"Her death has also ruined the lives of those responsible as well as the lives of their families.

"On a wider scale, it is a tragedy for a society which, in the past, has prided itself on its tolerance.

"I am convinced Sophie was killed simply because of the way she looked. She did not necessarily conform to the ideals of those who took her life."

Det Supt Gradwell said it was one of the most violent murders he had come across in his lengthy career.

He said: "It was a totally unnecessary and appalling set of circumstances.

"I do not think Herbert and Harris have recognised how violent the attack was.

"They have just done it without thinking but they have seemed to have enjoyed it and carried on remorselessly kicking at two very defenceless people who were unable to protect themselves because of the level of violence inflicted upon them.

"There was a total lack of parental control.

"I am very critical of some of the parents involved. I really don't think they have taken completely seriously how repulsive this incident was."

He said that when Harris was initially interviewed about the assaults he was "laughing and joking" with his mother.

Goths emerged as a youth subculture in the early 1980s.

Although initially used to describe a form of music, it has evolved to encompass literature, art and fashion, with its exponents typically dressing in dark clothing.

I'll put this in my other news topic with all the other news from the court case since it began.
There's still four other defendants aside from Mr. Harris.

[Jaye Jang]

L'Oiseau Noir,

Just an FYI. The perps of the Columbine massacre were not goths. They claimed to be, which gave goths a bad name. They were actually Neo-Nazis. (They call them skinheads in my home state). Apparently they call them chavs in England. They are hate-mongers, and they hate anyone who is different from them: Goths, punks, Christians, Jewish people, orientals, Blacks. It does'nt matter. The same kind of people who killed Rachel Scott (among others) at Columbine, are the kind of people who killed Sophie and attacked Rob, and yes they would do it again -- and no, sorry to say, they would not have any remorse. Neo-Nazis are hate-mongers in the same way that sharks are eating machines. It's just what they do.

[DeathToLems]

Ok I'm not gonna be one of them ppl who goes around like emo is this and goth is that, there's a difference blabla
But a chav in England is mostly kids around the age of 13 to 17 that hang around in groups, mostly near parks or corner shops asking random ppl to "go in the shop for me (to ge get some cigarettes/cyder)". If anyone walks past them that they don't like they will shout out something to try and impress and encourage their mates to join in.
Urbandictionary.com can give you pictures and more info.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chav
My point is I don't think a chav has the education or any knowledge of Nazism so I wouldn't really call them neo-Nazi's.

[Dark Clarissa]

Jaye Jang - skinheads and neo-Nazis are not the same as chavs here in the UK. (Edit: not having a go at you here just thought you might find this interesting.)

I'm not a huge fan of Wikipedia - but their description of what a chav is is surprisingly spot on:

The "Chav Look" is typified by cheap, often counterfeit clothing and accessories.

* Jewellery

Jewellery, particularly half-sovereign rings, large "hoop" earings, and heavy necklaces or chains are often worn, frequently in amounts that might be thought excessive. This jewellery tends to be poorly made, and composed of either low-carat gold or imitations such as coated brass or gilding metal.

* Sports Clothing

Sportsware such as trainers, hoodies, polo shirts, Tracksuits and baseball caps are common in British street fashion. In the chav sub-culture these are emphasised, with a number of distinct characteristics;

* Tracksuit bottoms are far more prevalent, and are tucked well into the socks
* Trainers, particularly white, tend to be preferred.
* While the face is rarely concealed, hoods, caps and scarves are often kept in a manner that might conceal the face if desired. Baseball Caps are therefore more common than in mainstream fashion.

* Brand awareness

Clothing will often be prominently marked with the signature-devices of high-end brands, although these are often counterfeit and not products of the implied brand. Notably "Burberry" is often copied on such clothing.

...Within the UK "chav" is often used to indicate a person(s) openly exhibiting many antisocial or irresponsible tendancies, particular examples include.

* Habitual, willing unemployment,
* Truancy (if of school age)
* Underage sexual activity, particularly if resulting in underage pregnancies,
* Promiscuity and children conceived in casual relationships,
* Assault or incitement to violence, including so called Happy slapping and co-ordinated intimidation.
* Theft,
* Criminal Vandalism,
* Profoundly hubristic behaviour including queue jumping, and enhanced sense of entitlement.
* Public Nuisance, in particular spitting, shouting or playing loud music on the street or on public transport.
* Hatred of the police and other authority figures
* Hatred of other subcultures, such as goths and emos.

So definitely filled with angst and hatred towards other groups of people, but not part of the skinhead/Neo-Nazi group.

[DeathToLems]

I just had a read on urban dictionary of mosher and it seems there enemies would be chavs.
Hmm.

[Jaye Jang]

Dark Clarissa/DTL,

Thanks for setting me straight. I'm grateful that they were just a group of 'bad apples', and that they weren't 'skinheads' or Neo-Nazis otherwise the outcome of an already horrific attack could have been so much worse. (Neo-Nazis are bad enough, but 'skinheads' (a particularly violent sect of Neo-Nazis) don't believe in leaving survivors or witnesses)). Unfortunately, the perps at Columbine 'identified' with the latter.

As an FYI: The Columbine perpetrators would have had to keep their belief system 'under wraps', since hate crimes are severely prosecuted in this part of the country. Affiliation with groups that encourage hate crimes is illegal in this part of the country, and even wearing apparel that identifies one as a member (or even member 'wannabe', etc.) is absolutely not allowed in the schools here. That is probably why they openly claimed to be goths -- as goths are usually considered 'weird', albeit harmless. That is also the only way they could have attended a high school in this area -- and still continued to espouse their 'belief system', as well as their choice of apparel -- without being suspended or even expelled.

[chelseagirl]

Originally Posted by Jaye Jang

Dark Clarissa/DTL,

Thanks for setting me straight. I'm grateful that they were just a group of 'bad apples', and that they weren't 'skinheads' or Neo-Nazis otherwise the outcome of an already horrific attack could have been so much worse. (Neo-Nazis are bad enough, but 'skinheads' (a particularly violent sect of Neo-Nazis) don't believe in leaving survivors or witnesses)). Unfortunately, the perps at Columbine 'identified' with the latter.

I have NEVER read anywhere that the Columbine shooters were skinheads...where did you get that from?


lol, you don't truly know much about skinheads, do you? Most of my friends are skinheads.

[JCC]

Skinhead is an offshoot of Punk that first leaned towards Anti-Racism with the Oi! movement.

I hate when people say "Ah, they have very short hair and listen to Punk! Deutschland uber alles!"