Rant Thread II - Page 319

Fruitbat · 01-09-2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaye Jang

FB, I would ask to "borrow" some of your heat, but then the roof would probably cave in (or I would drown in the yard once the snow all melted). How about if I send some snow your way instead, since it's been snowing here for like 5 days so far?

Yes please! Any sort of precipitation would be lovely here at the moment. Snow would help the firefighters with the fire.

Ashley - Marry an Australian or migrate over here. Over here if you get Cancer you can get treatment paid by the government. Okay it probably won't pay for any fancy drugs, but at least you can get treatment for free if you are a resident.

oh and for what it's worth, the only cancer I won't get is prostrate, because I'm a girl, but everything else - well I have a strong family history of most of the scary ones.

And it's friggin' cruel watching someone slowly die of cancer. Why can't we put them to sleep instead of watching them suffer for days/weeks/months if there is no hope of remission?

Stoopid fuckin' world

Miss Absynthe · 01-09-2013, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

And it's friggin' cruel watching someone slowly die of cancer. Why can't we put them to sleep instead of watching them suffer for days/weeks/months if there is no hope of remission?

Because a lot of people who have cancer aren't ready to die, even if they don't have a prognosis that included periods of remission.

Because we don't get to decide on whether their quality of life is adequate.

Because dying is a process that people move through, and to cut off that process before it's completed means that they might miss out on something that they want to experience.

What we need to be doing is making sure that while they are dying they aren't suffering. Symptom control for diseases like cancer is actually very easy to obtain and maintain - the problem exists when you have health systems that don't care about supplying the resources needed to dealing with symptoms because these people are just going to die anyways.

I worked as a palliative care nurse for 15 years.. I'm good at helping people die well. It's very much an achievable goal - it's just that a lot of people within health care don't think that it's a worthy goal.

ape descendant · 01-09-2013, 09:48 PM

Because watching our loved ones die is a part of life. It is up to us to make their final moments be as comfortable as possible, to show them we love them and to appreciate them one last time before they're gone forever.

It isn't easy but it is worthwhile work. Mother nature is a cruel bitch, we take her sting with our love.

AshleyO · 01-09-2013, 10:08 PM

I would honestly hope that if I ended up with cancer that I couldn't treat that my loved ones would have enough sense to put a bullet in my head and in my heart. Make it count, and make it quick.

That's just me though.

Saya · 01-09-2013, 10:18 PM

I think euthanasia should be legal, but at the same time I don't think that means that dying can't be a good process.

My grandfather was super sick a lot and there were many times where he was on life support and my mom and her family would debate on what to do, but he'd always make out of it and he was able to live by himself without being a bother at all. He ended up dying in his sleep on his couch. He smoked like a chimney since he was 13, had all kinds of diseases (maybe cancer, he had a biopsy shortly before he died and we never found out after) and I'm glad he was there after he got out of the hospital each time.

An aunt of mine died of ALS and it was really painful to watch her die over the course of a year, but at the same time knowing how much time she had allowed her to make her peace with family she had alienated.

Solumina · 01-10-2013, 12:45 AM

My cousin got an abortion today and the few friends she told are being really shitty about it. They are pretending to be supportive but all of their support is backhanded and judgmental, about both the abortion itself and for getting pregnant, so now she feels like she is a stupid, irresponsible, awful person. I just wish I could physically be there for her and wrap her up in a big hug instead of just talking on the phone.

Fruitbat · 01-10-2013, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshleyO

I would honestly hope that if I ended up with cancer that I couldn't treat that my loved ones would have enough sense to put a bullet in my head and in my heart. Make it count, and make it quick.

That's just me though.

Oh bloody hell, I actually agree with this ^, except I'd put the bullet in myself because i'd hate for anyone to live with having to do this.

I know death is a process, but i watched my mother die slowly. Sure the cancer had eaten away at her bowels, and she had no control over her bodily functions, but she was still suffering, and if she hadn't stopped taking her medication, she would never have had a stroke that finally ended her suffering. She would cry almost all the time with the pain she was in. The doctor wasn't interested in pallative care, plus they lived in a rural area, so there was no support systems in place.

But then I'm the sort of person who would rather see an animal shot than watch it go through an agonizing death.

Ape: I had a hellofa time when my mother was dying, trying to balance my ex pschyo shithead who thought that visiting my dying mother every week was a waste of his time (he wouldn't let me go on my own). I did manage to make her last year bearable, but being the only one in my family to make the effort, was personally devastating.

**fucking migranes**

Jaye Jang · 01-10-2013, 03:22 AM

Well, finally get a break from work (for a few minutes). On my ancient laptop, so this will be slow. However, it's still snowing. The good news is I have work. The bad news is, it would take a 4-by to get into my driveway now (forget getting out). FB, I hope you're not in that area of Australia that the 'Net is calling the "purple zone" (goes beyond being red hot). Will be worrying about you now (lost one of my favorite summer hangouts for me and the kiddo this year to a forest fire, so no future memories for the grand-kiddoes). Fires are no fun. (Neither are blizzards and white-outs, and ice storms). Drat!

Ashley, et al. I will be keeping all of you in my thoughts. (Started trying to count all the relatives I've lost to the big 'C', or who are either survivors or suffering from sequelae or residua, and finally lost count. Too many painful memories there, anyway). Actually agree with euthanasia, but it's amazing how hard your survival instinct kicks in once it's you. (Miss A, you missed a reason: Responsibilities. Sometimes you just have to survive especially if someone else depends on you).

FB, sorry about what happened with your mother. Good you could be there at least as much as you could. (Couldn't do that for too many of my loved ones, due to distance or family "psychos." Missed too many funerals for the same reason). I'm sure she appreciated what you were able to do.

Sol, keep up the phone calls and the long-distance 'hugs', duckling. You'd be amazed at how much that shores people up during the tough times.

Well, got to go back to work. I've got a landlord to support.

Miss Absynthe · 01-10-2013, 05:38 AM

I'm not saying that I don't agree with euthanasia.. honestly, I don't know if I agree with it or not - even having done this for such a long time, I still don't know where I sit on an ethical level with it.

Things that I do know, though:

- it should be the decision of the person going through the process, not the decision of their doctors, their friend, their family or a legal decision.

- symptom control is vitally important, even if the person is going to make a choice to end their life. They should know that there is an option of living with the illness AND having their symptoms managed.

I don't think that I'll ever really know how I feel about euthanasia until it's me in the hospital gown. But I do know that I will work my arse off to advocate for the wishes of people who are dying and their right to have agency over their own lives, even if I don't personally agree with the decisions that they want to make.

MissCheyenne · 01-10-2013, 06:23 AM

The palliative care my mum received when she had terminal cancer was first rate. They did everything they could to relieve her suffering. I too don't know how I feel about euthanasia, there's a lot to be said for both sides of the argument I think.

Jaye Jang · 01-10-2013, 10:30 AM

We're in total whiteout right now. If the snow gets any higher, not going to be able to get the front door open.

Saya · 01-10-2013, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

I'm not saying that I don't agree with euthanasia.. honestly, I don't know if I agree with it or not - even having done this for such a long time, I still don't know where I sit on an ethical level with it.

Things that I do know, though:

- it should be the decision of the person going through the process, not the decision of their doctors, their friend, their family or a legal decision.

- symptom control is vitally important, even if the person is going to make a choice to end their life. They should know that there is an option of living with the illness AND having their symptoms managed.

I don't think that I'll ever really know how I feel about euthanasia until it's me in the hospital gown. But I do know that I will work my arse off to advocate for the wishes of people who are dying and their right to have agency over their own lives, even if I don't personally agree with the decisions that they want to make.

I absolutely agree, euthanasia would be totally unethical if symptom control was not provided, free of charge. I think the for profit healthcare system America has would unfairly force a lot of people to weigh that as a serious option because of lack of funds. I just think that, all that provided, its unfair to make someone go through a painful death when they'd rather die on their own terms.

AshleyO · 01-10-2013, 10:57 AM

Yeah. I dunno if there's much that could be gleaned from my position.

I can think of way too many instances of things that could happen to me that I'd rather not survive. But I draw a pretty hard line on several things. I think a lot of it has to do with how selfish I actually am as to why I would consider euthanasia for a lot of illnesses, injuries, and whatnot. Big respects for those that choose to go on after such awful things happen to them though. But I don't think that's for me.

Jaye Jang · 01-10-2013, 11:36 AM

Valid points made all around. I should've specified that I believe in euthanasia for myself. (I work in a nonprofit hospital and I like the fact that end-of-life patients are given the option of appointing a DPA (Designated Power of Attorney) so they can create a Living Will and decide if they want to be DNR/DNI. I'm pretty sure most hospitals do that). I want that right, to decide, if I get to where my ADLs degenerate to the point where my QOL (quality of life) reeks. I've worked in nursing homes and seen too many people living, and dying, without dignity. If I ever get to where I cannot function, take proper care of myself or become a burden to my family, I want the right to die with dignity.

AshleyO · 01-10-2013, 12:43 PM

Confession Bear Time:

I find it startling to myself that given the choice, I'd rather die of my own choosing than suffer an undignified death; but I still have some specters of my old self saying that any kind of suicide, no matter how much you can justify it; is wrong for superstitious reasons assisted, medical, or otherwise. It's almost freakishly hilarious that there's still a part of me superstitious enough to be cautious about suicide or euthanasia but not give a single squirrel fart about any other sort of superstitious non-sense.

Miss Absynthe · 01-10-2013, 01:19 PM

Superstitious reasons in what way?

AshleyO · 01-10-2013, 01:45 PM

Oh you know... Southern Baptist moral implications. It's also a Catholic thing I guess. Sooo... Christian morality?

Miss Absynthe · 01-10-2013, 09:52 PM

Things like that can be so ingrained that it's like a monosynaptic reflex.

Saya · 01-10-2013, 09:58 PM

Hey, I don't step on cracks or pass people on stairs and pray when I feel like it. I think when you grow up in ______ culture you never really get way from the practices and habits, even when the belief is gone.

Saya · 01-10-2013, 10:55 PM

We are getting 70+ centimeters of snow. Winds gusting to 120km an hour.

How is this legal.

Versus · 01-10-2013, 10:57 PM

Watch out for dire wolves.

Fruitbat · 01-10-2013, 11:40 PM

JJ - No we don't live in the areas that get 50+C temperatures, although I was quite happy when I heard they called the colour "Deep purple" because i like the music.

we recently broke a record where the entire continent's average temperature was over 40C. That's pretty impressive for Australia... normally we aren't such high achievers... *wink*

Jaye Jang · 01-11-2013, 03:42 AM

Whew, Batty! That's a relief. (Love Deep Purple myself --"Smoke On The Water" 4evah)!

It's O-dark-thirty a.m. Had to get up this early because I have to go into town today. Dreading that. Last time I had to go up to the VAMC (Monday) it took 2hours to get there on the bus and 3 hours to get back on the DAV van. (Then they couldn't get the van into the driveway). And it's still snowing!! Aack. I hope I can get IN the door by the time I get back.

Catch · 01-11-2013, 11:37 AM

All right. I want to Elf Myself. The only one who sent a Friend Request on Face Book is Captain CStern. There is something Wrong with the World?

Here is the link
https://www.facebook.com/naomie.christensen

You know what to do.

I am planing a song list. So far I have "Ice Ice Baby" by Vanilla Ice and "Father Christmas" by the Kinks. It should be great.

Fruitbat · 01-12-2013, 02:40 AM

I'm dizzy. It's quite fun when you race after a kid, and you run sideways because you can't quite run straight, and end up bouncing off the walls as you walk down the hallway.

Stoopid middle ear crap. I've been this way for three days - waiting to see the dr. Vague as all batshit too - takes me five minutes to answer a simple question.... awesome.