Da Vinci Code~Dan Brown

[Saxie]

Do you Know one speaker said that "nothing in christianity is original"? The religion is just an offshoot of judaism & infused with Paganism.

and the "conspiracy" in the Da vinci Code?

The "illuminati", who swore that they'll destroy the church, made attempts, but the "legion of the immaculate", headed by maximilian kolbe, defeated them.

[Blushing Heliophobe]

Good job.

You can offhandedly relate sketchy fiction dribble.

Here's your golden fucking star.

*ignore*

[Rasputin]

there are any rumors about this story. and some are criticisms against the church. Saxie's information is based on reference books about the story. and some of it are made by critics.

[Rasputin]

the story also bears in my mind just like an illuminati or a legion of the immaculate saying:
"ARE YOU JOINING AT THE SIDE OF THE ALLIANCE?"

[CutterCutie666]

wow how cool is that?

[Mr E Nigma]

=shrugs= There's plenty of Movie's based on true stories, parts of it true, parts of it exaggerated...

When I was a wee lad I decided (upon findings in certain videogames) that I would delve myself upon Paganism. And I fell vastly in love with it.. well the Druidic form of it. But I still study base paganism and I found a lot of Dan Brown's symbolic statements are true. Anyone could tell you that. and like the above said "Nothing in Christianity is original"

But whoever stated that also forgot to mention that every other religion isn't original either. I mean parts maybe.. But there's no way you could base a religion on completely original Ideas.

This in turn is why I don't much have a specific religious direction but instead decided to read and learn about as many types of religions/ways of life that I possibly can. And out of the many of studied I find Buddhism the most appealling. Not necessarilly the way of life. But rather the ideas they have and morales that they go by.

[Ikaros]

What an amusing subject to stumble across as the first thread I find on these boards! All the joy of a gift, without having to sort through receipts to return it =D

The book is fine, as a work of fiction. There's certainly worse sullying the bookshelves at airports, gas stations, and grocery stores. The overarching story is fairly interesting, if a bit predictable. The characters are purely utilitarian, existing as devices to advance the plot (i.e. "Behold, I am Exposition Man!"), but the dialogue is natural and, at times, charming. I would have enjoyed it more had Mr. Brown done a bit more research into numerical reference, cryptology, and the like, but given the obvious pop-market slant of the book, he can hardly be faulted on that point.

All in all, it's a perfectly adequate work of fiction. The problem is that the "fiction" designation is very intentionally ambiguous.

During the initial marketing of the book (notice this sucker has been on shelves better than a decade, yet it's just gotten noticed in the last few years?), it was purely and entirely marketed as a work of imagination. The cover quotes, PR, and such referred to prose style, scope, creativity... the sort of blurb you'd expect to see on the back cover of a Harry Potter book. As time passed, the marketing shifted. The style of review became more akin to the sort of handling that Tom Clancy usually gets: references to an in-depth knowledge of the subject matter, sound bites about "interesting questions", etc. Before you knew it, Dan Brown was on the bookshelf beside Perretti (the guy who gave us "Left Behind" and the "Christianity ala X-men" series "... the darkness"), placed as a direct voice of opposition to the more laughable elements of Christian fiction.

The "fiction" designation got even more ambiguous as Brown started hitting the interview circuit, as he coyly side-stepped direct questions about the factual basis of his work. As he and his publisher became more and more evasive about the "research", smirked knowingly at more and more questions, the public interest in the book sky rocketed. It was a BRILLIANT marketing move: people bought the book to be "in the know", in on the secret, wise to the ways of a world too startling and shocking to be described directly, but that could be safely expressed in "fiction".

And all Dan Brown had to do was shut up. If someone asked where he got his info, he could clam up and watch the mystery slam the cash register drawers over and over.

For me, the best part is a recent punchline to this masterful prank:

The authors of the non-fiction book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" started a suit with Dan Brown, stating that Brown had stolen their ideas as the basis for his own work. The suit boomed, fizzled, and resulted in an out-of-court settlement. Why is this so funny?

Because the ideas of both books can only be considered intellectual property if they are fiction. In order for the authors of HB, HG (Michael Baigent,Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln) to claim that Brown had infringed on their intellectual property, they would have to define their ideas as imaginitive (i.e. fiction). In order for Brown to defend himself, he would have to state that the ideas in the DaVinci Code were his own creation (i.e. fiction).

There they were, an enormous pile of money at stake, and neither party could afford to speak up and say, in a court of law, that they made it up.

I was laughing for days over that one. Hell, I still can't think about it without getting a nasty case of the giggles.

[Mr E Nigma]

If I am not mistaken the Da Vinci Code's publication and copyright date were both in 2003. I'd like to know how that's a decade?

[Ikaros]

Heh. Fair catch, and testament to the risk of writing long posts tight in the grip of sleep dep: dates get nicely muddled ;-)

[Mr E Nigma]

Yup. A nice 7 years off. No sweat. Sh1t happens. And in that department I would care to guess that happens quite often for quite a few.

[Ikaros]

For Arthur, I still dig Mallory. Goofy, I know.

Lawhead's fun, but doesn't even pretend to try to get his ups, downs, and Morgans straight. He's still a fun read, especially his Albion series: it's straight butchery of Irish myth, but entertaining enough to forgive him, forget it, and go along for the ride.

[Ikaros]

Post timed out... CTRL-C is my friend.

Brown's "revelation" about pagan influence in Christian history isn't itself original, but reflective of a recent resurgence of a particular school of thought (say, over the last 30 years). The whole ball of wax, from ecumencism to the Templars, is part of a well established tradition of interpretation that is every bit as historically selective as Brown. That's much of my perspective: I don't particularly hate Brown so much as I hate the long line of which Brown is the most recent regent. Hell, he should have made a clean job of it and stamped "Gnostikos" on the cover.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

the da vinci code is a great NOVEL,it's FICTION that's why things in it should not be seriously taken!!!however i think that jesus might've liked mary magdalene since he came down on earth as human and love is a basic human feeling..... btw is anything that was said about the bible code real???

[Wise Child]

Couldn't tell ya. I read The Bible Code a couple of years ago and it was interesting... but the only thing I've heard about it is that apparently one of the guys who worked on it was really pissed at the author for making it sound like he was complicit in the theory. So I can only assume there are some serious holes in it... but, like I said I only read the book, not any criticism of it, and obviously the author's not gonna point out the bullshit in his own book.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

In The Bible Code I and II, they say something about World War III,the end of the World, Armageddon.....Any truth to that???

[succubus,queenofvampires]

Ok,whatever I'll try,but don't expect any quick improvements since "English is not my first language".

[Wise Child]

Originally Posted by succubus,queenofvampires

In The Bible Code I and II, they say something about World War III,the end of the World, Armageddon.....Any truth to that???

Well, we won't know if they were right till it happens, will we?

I can't remember it too well, to be honest. Although I read a book on Nostradamus when I was fairly young, and one of his quatrains was interpreted to mean that there would be a nuclear holocaust on the seventh month of 1999. Scared the shit outta me. Luckily, by the time 1999 rolled around, I was fifteen and sunk in apathy. Depressing, but hey - the fear factor's lower, so three cheers for teenage angst.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

Originally Posted by Xnguela

Sweetheart, I've just had a discussion with your friend, and informed her about the importance of spelling, grammar, and punctuation, particularly when you join a website that calls itself a Literary Culture.

Btw,grammar freak,you just put a comma before "and",and you don't even have a subject,so it's not an independent clause;therefore, you must not insert a comma.So before you start lecturing people about their own grammatical mistakes,start proofreading your own posts, particularly when you join a website that calls itself a Literary Culture.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

I just hope you're right,Wise Child.Anyway,thanks for the advice.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

I just never paid attention to grammar while I'm chatting or on the Internet,so I'm kinda used to neglecting grammatical and spelling rules.Give me a bit of time,and I'll get used to it!!

[Dr. Faust]

I don't believe he has proved his thesis. What research did he actually do? His information is identical to that contained in the book:Holy Blood, Holy Grail.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

Originally Posted by Xnguela

Well, once you do, I look forward to many interesting posts by you. I think that being from another culture indicates that you probably have a lot of interesting things to teach us all! So I really truly look forward to hearing more from you.

So,Xnguela,what do you want to talk about?
P.S.:I'll try to avoid any language mistakes.

[succubus,queenofvampires]

Santarea,can you elaborate more because I didn't get a clear picture of what you were saying?
Also,since you seem to know quite a lot about this subject, is the stuff written in the Bible Code true and is bound to happen or was it just written in order to sell books??

[Ikaros]

I love the emphasis on Revelations, particularly considering that it was a bit of a dark horse candidate for canonization. I just adore the doctrinal dominance that ONE book, neither Gospel nor Epistle, has on the imagination and the popular understanding of Christianity.

When it comes to prophecy, it pays to know your history.

Better yet, (and I know Santarea will love this): History OF prophecy.

When you start poking around what people have said was going to happen, i.e. the doomsayers of the 17th century, the picture gets very amusing. Here's the reader's digest version:

Every generation that has walked the earth since the expulsion from eden or the descent from the trees has earnestly, fervently, religiously believed it would be the last. Taking each era at their word, EVERY day has been the last day, and the End Times have encompassed the entirety of human history.

Zoroaster believed his grandchildren would see the end of the world. Early Christians believed that when Jesus said he was coming back, he meant VERY soon, i.e. people were expecting him to show up long before John scribbled down his Apocalypse. Even Plato entertained notions that he would see a fall of human civilization from which it would not recover.

Every generation has predicted it would be the last, and for the last 500 years, they've used the EXACT same passages of text to justify this belief. People were pointing to Nostradomus as heralding the end of history long before Victoria sat in throne. Isaac Newton's father preached impending armageddon his whole life, and nearly drank himself to death on the night of December 31, 1665 (since the game was up in 1,666).

In the U.S., we've gone crazy with it. The End is the single most substantial doctrinal division between the protestant churches, centering on an unending debate about the doctrinal viability of a nightmare a 19th century Scottish child had after eating some spoiled barley.

The irony that doomsaying has become synonymous with Christianity is almost too much to bear. Jesus spoke at length, specifically condemning the very behavior that has been superimposed over his life and work ("Listen not to those who say... there are always earthquakes, always wars... no man knows the hour").

Then again, ignoring the original prophet of one's chosen religion is a very, very popular activity.

[Ikaros]

The Bible Code...
Sorry, but I don't have enough booze in the house to discuss THAT.